# "If it saves only one life" - time to shut down the NYC subway? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805 "2013-01-10T23:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/41 "2013-01-11T21:55:18Z")
I wasn’t referring to Biden’s ritual genuflection before the Second Amendment. The point is that this line: “But as the president said, even if what we do only saves one life, it makes sense” constitutes dumbassery. It’s not a Democratic fallacy, it’s not a Republican fallacy. It’s just a fallacy, pure and simple. The object is to shut down debate. Who besides a wretch who fails to value human life could argue with it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/42 "2013-01-11T22:36:03Z")
It’s false that it’s never true that “if it saves one life, it makes sense.” Because, sometimes it _does_ make sense. Biden is not saying “it makes sense, regardless of any other circumstances.” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/43 "2013-01-11T22:43:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There isn’t a sentence in Der Trihs’ post that I don’t wholeheartedly agree with. That’s just because you’re as fucking stupid and delusional as he is. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/44 "2013-01-11T22:56:23Z")
Good post **Drew**. Trouble is, the vast majority of the affected audience will never see it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/45 "2013-01-11T23:18:05Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > It would cost a lot. It’s then a judgement as to whether the additional safety leads to additional revenue in the long run. Or, of course, you can take an ethical stance and decide that safety (of children and the elderly in particular) is worth the cost. [underline added] No, it’s _not ever_ about ‘additional revenue’, but purely about _the cost, especially_ including [‘Opportunity Cost’](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost) (including for the ‘eeevil corporate money-grubbers). If it costs US society a million bucks to save one child’s life, that’s only about 1/3 of a cent per person, so rather cheap. But if that same million could have been spent on something that would have saved 1000 childrens’ lives, then it’s an _ **un** _ethical stance to say that “saving that one child’s life is worth the cost”. You’re trading 1000 kids’ lives to save the one. _That_ is what’s so perniciously evil about “if it saves _one_ life, it’s worth it” thinking. It’s almost _always_ ignoring the opportunity cost, such as the ‘unintended negative consequences’ of the action. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/46 "2013-01-12T00:29:24Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > At what point can we call this what it is: Being a fucking jerk. > > **Der Trihs** is an embarrassment and should be banned from the board. Yes, he’s a fucking jerk, an _incredibly_ _ **fucking idiot** _ jerk. But he confines that jerkishness to the “Pit”. Where it’s allowed. He’s limited to his appropriate forum. He isn’t something to obsess over. Come to our dark side. He _doesn’t_ have cookies. We do. There _are_ atheists who _aren’t_ total jackasses about it. And our cookies are better. _Come to the **dark** side._ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/47 "2013-01-12T03:52:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Notice that Biden said that it was worth it to take steps to save that one life _without interfering with Second Amendment rights_. He didn’t say that it was worth it to do _anything_ that might save one life. Personally, I think we should draft every American citizen. It is clearly constitutional, and conveniently gets rid of most of those pesky “rights” that don’t apply to military personnel. I look forward to ordering millions to their certain deaths. Um, so that others might be saved, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/48 "2013-01-12T03:56:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Personally, I think we should draft every American citizen. It is clearly constitutional, and conveniently gets rid of most of those pesky “rights” that don’t apply to military personnel. > > I look forward to ordering millions to their certain deaths. Um, so that others might be saved, of course. And this is somehow analogous to what Biden said? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/49 "2013-01-12T04:03:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You can’t really be pro- anything without being “noisy”. Really? Wow. That’s got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve seen in awhile. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I am pro-silence. So there. 😃 > [@BobLibDem](#): > > There isn’t a sentence in Der Trihs’ post that I don’t wholeheartedly agree with. If telling the truth is being a jerk, I hope I’m half as big a jerk as he is. Just because you can’t handle the truth is no reason to ban the one who tells it. So you think it is “truth” that anyone who is pro-gun ownership also must not care about human life? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/50 "2013-01-12T04:07:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And this is somehow analogous to what Biden said? If you look sideways and squint. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/51 "2013-01-12T19:36:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Personally, I think we should draft every American citizen. It is clearly constitutional, and conveniently gets rid of most of those pesky “rights” that don’t apply to military personnel. \ Hell, draft the non-citizens, too. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/52 "2013-01-12T20:07:18Z")
Second Hand Smoke kills 50000 innocents a year, mostly children and the elderly. We can ban smoking, and by doing so save about TEN times the number of innocents murdered with handguns, and something like 100 times those killed with “assault weapons”. And, do it without even stepping on a corner of the Bill of Rights. Let us not save “just one life” let us save \*FIFTY Thousand lives. \* ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/53 "2013-01-12T22:15:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I wasn’t referring to Biden’s ritual genuflection before the Second Amendment. > > The point is that this line: “But as the president said, even if what we do only saves one life, it makes sense” constitutes dumbassery. It’s not a Democratic fallacy, it’s not a Republican fallacy. It’s just a fallacy, pure and simple. The object is to shut down debate. Who besides a wretch who fails to value human life could argue with it? Surely that depends on what the “one thing” is? Being a regular blood donor may only save one life. Does that make it a fallacy that donating blood is worthwhile? I can see you making an argument if that’s the only rationale behind a choice and there are other, valid, reasons against said choice. I fail to see that being the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/54 "2013-01-12T22:16:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Second Hand Smoke kills 50000 innocents a year, mostly children and the elderly. We can ban smoking, and by doing so save about TEN times the number of innocents murdered with handguns, and something like 100 times those killed with “assault weapons”. > > And, do it without even stepping on a corner of the Bill of Rights. > > Let us not save “just one life” let us save \*FIFTY Thousand lives. \* Okay. We can do that, and semiautomatic weapons too. There are just so many things gun strokers want to ban these days! It’s pretty surprising. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/55 "2013-01-13T00:43:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay. We can do that, and semiautomatic weapons too. There are just so many things gun strokers want to ban these days! It’s pretty surprising. The point is, those who want to ban guns say it is to save all the lives that would otherwise be killed by the small percentage of guns using in things like Sandy Hook. If what they are really interested in is saving lives, then they should be on about things like smoking but they aren’t. There are many reasons why this is, but I think the number one reason is that an individual child dying from second hand smoke isn’t as newsworthy as a bunch of children dying at one time. If people would quit letting the media think for them, things would go much better. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/56 "2013-01-13T00:45:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay. We can do that, and semiautomatic weapons too. There are just so many things gun strokers want to ban these days! It’s pretty surprising. Well, if there wasn’t that pesky Bill of Rights in the way…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/57 "2013-01-13T01:01:15Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yeah but how many people’s lives does the NYC subway save a day? Like 10? If you could calculate the number of hours saved (Yes!! The subway serves a million people a day and saves them many hours in total) divided by the number of hours in an average person’s life, you could come up with a rough equivalent. * * * In keeping with the intelligence level of the OP, how about the Catch 22 solution to the gun problem? - Assume we should keep insane people from having guns. Also assume it’s insane to want a gun. Therefor everyone who wants to buy a gun should be stopped from doing so. If you don’t want a gun, you’re sane and therefor could buy one. But you won’t. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/58 "2013-01-13T03:38:50Z")
Jackie Mason suggested, in the Penn & Teller segment on gun control (on YouTube) that legs should be banned, because people have been kicked to death, as should hands (so a Gentile doesn’t hit a Jew smaller than him). This is my first post in the Pit. Adios and thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/59 "2013-01-13T05:35:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Second Hand Smoke kills 50000 innocents a year, mostly children and the elderly. We can ban smoking, and by doing so save about TEN times the number of innocents murdered with handguns, and something like 100 times those killed with “assault weapons”. > > And, do it without even stepping on a corner of the Bill of Rights. > > Let us not save “just one life” let us save \*FIFTY Thousand lives. \* Unfortunately unworkable. So far educational methods are working better than prohibition would. Which is another place your analogy fails; the gun fetishists would hardly support a nationwide anti-gun campaign in analogy to the anti-tobacco campaign. > [@curlcoat](#): > > The point is, those who want to ban guns say it is to save all the lives that would otherwise be killed by the small percentage of guns using in things like Sandy Hook. No; they want to stop guns from killing people all the time, not just in such rare massacres. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805/60 "2013-01-13T06:22:07Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > \ > > In keeping with the intelligence level of the OP, how about the Catch 22 solution to the gun problem? > > - Assume we should keep insane people from having guns. > > Also assume it’s insane to want a gun. Therefor everyone who wants to buy a gun should be stopped from doing so. > > If you don’t want a gun, you’re sane and therefor could buy one. But you won’t. > > Problem solved. Not bad, not bad. Now, explain how I can buy eggs for seven cents and sell them for five cents and make a profit. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-saves-only-one-life-time-to-shut-down-the-nyc-subway/646805.md?page=4)