# If it works in the Phillipins should Mexico try the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748 "2016-08-23T18:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/41 "2016-08-25T13:59:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Or its like killing breast cancer with a mastectomy and chemotherapy. No, it isn’t like that. Cancer is a life-threatening disease. Treating cancer justifies surgery. The situation in the Philippines is the opposite of this. The government has begun a program which is worse than the problem they are supposedly trying to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/42 "2016-08-25T14:51:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Cancer is a life-threatening disease. Treating cancer justifies surgery. Not only that, but it justifies surgery on the right parts of your body. If you have breast cancer, and you go in to the operating room, do you really have to take a gamble that you might come out with your leg and four fingers amputated? It sure seems like what’s going on in the Philippines is that “doctors” are randomly cutting off body parts with the idea that cancer might be in some of them. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/43 "2016-08-25T15:15:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It sure seems like what’s going on in the Philippines is that “doctors” are randomly cutting off body parts with the idea that cancer might be in some of them. And they’re using machetes instead of scalpels, apparently thrown from a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/44 "2016-08-25T15:20:06Z")
Lynchings work. They’re very good at producing corpses. Is “producing corpses” the purpose of a justice system now? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/45 "2016-08-25T18:50:27Z")
If it works in the Phillipines. Ok, for grins I’ll go along with the concept. But first things first- when this is all said and done the important question will be: How well did this work out? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/46 "2016-08-25T19:00:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1% of the population are drug dealers? One questions why there’s so much demand. Because vigilante death squading is stressful work and you need to unwind somehow? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/47 "2016-08-26T00:39:50Z")
Organized crime was coopting the government and police officials responsible for trying to stop them. The “solution” involves giving those same untrustworthy organizations the power to kill people without checks and balances. On top of that they’ve started looking the other way when vigilantes kill people as long as they claim “drug dealer”. Again with no checks and balances to make sure it wasn’t because the target wasn’t just letting his dog shit in your yard. Call me dubious of the notion that the long term results will be good. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/48 "2016-08-26T03:47:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The Filipinos seem to think its working. The Filipinos who don’t think it’s working probably keep their thoughts to themselves lest it be publically announced that they are a drug dealer. And let’s face it anyone who would go around suggesting that it’s wrong to shoot drug dealers is probably a drug dealer themselves, am I right? There was a long list of judges and cops that Dutarte announced to be drug dealers or sympathisers or whatnot. I’m guessing not too many Dutarte supporters made that list. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/49 "2016-08-26T03:55:36Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > You know who else won an election ;)? > > Strongmen are often popular with certain segments of a frightened or paranoid population - Putin certainly is. But by and large history doesn’t tend to judge them kindly, the less so the father you get from them in time. Just because you democratically elect an authoritarian demagogue, doesn’t make them less of an authoritarian demagogue. Especially in a state where the rule of law is fragile at best, all but absent at worst. In other threads there are even posters advocating for aiding in the overthrow of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, another democratiocally elected authoritarian asshole ( though less of a wild card than this joker ). The rule of law is already in tatters. They are not breaking something that ain’t already broken in the process of destroying the people who keep breaking it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/50 "2016-08-26T03:57:19Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The current number being reported is actually 700,000. With a population of 98 million that means there would be 1 drug dealer for every 140 citizens and presumably more left to turn themselves in. Do you think that is an accurate representation of the drug problem in the Philippines or do you think perhaps something else is going on? Based on the reporting, I would say that almost 1% of the population is turning themselves into the police. Its not like the Phillipines is a journalistic black hole, why wouldn’t you trust the journalism coming out of there? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/51 "2016-08-26T03:58:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If only those unjustly accused of a crime, one that suddenly entailed immediate capital punishment, had a way to protect themselves from a government that had become tyrannical. Filipinos are pretty well armed. Otherwise the vigiliantes wouldn’t have much of a change against the criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/52 "2016-08-26T04:00:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Not only that, but it justifies surgery on the right parts of your body. If you have breast cancer, and you go in to the operating room, do you really have to take a gamble that you might come out with your leg and four fingers amputated? > > It sure seems like what’s going on in the Philippines is that “doctors” are randomly cutting off body parts with the idea that cancer might be in some of them. I don’t know about that. You seem to be saying that the murders are random rather than targetted at criminals. I don’t know whether the cure is worse than the disease but just like chemotherapy might kill healthy cells along with cancerous ones, I suspect that some of the 1700 weren’t actually criminals. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/53 "2016-08-26T04:08:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know about that. You seem to be saying that the murders are random rather than targetted at criminals. > > I don’t know whether the cure is worse than the disease but just like chemotherapy might kill healthy cells along with cancerous ones, I suspect that some of the 1700 weren’t actually criminals. One doesn’t need to suspect, it is reality. > **[Philippine Government’s ‘War on Drugs’ Claims Child Victim](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/08/25/philippine-governments-war-drugs-claims-child-victim)** > > Five-year-old Danica May became the youngest reported victim of the Philippine government’s abusive “war on drugs” on Tuesday. Danica May is just one of more than a thousand Filipinos killed by unidentified gunmen between July 1, when President... > [@](#): > > Five-year-old Danica May became the youngest reported victim of the Philippine government’s abusive “war on drugs” on Tuesday. > > Members of the Philippine National Police (PNP) investigation unit checks the body of one of the five suspected drug pushers killed in a police operation in Quiapo city, metro Manila, Philippines > > The kindergarten student died from a gunshot wound to the head after an unidentified gunman opened fire on her grandfather, Maximo Garcia, as the family sat down to lunch. The attack came just three days after Garcia had registered with local police, who suspected his involvement in the drug trade. Garcia had said he wasn’t. He survived being shot in the abdomen in the attack, which police have attributed to unnamed “drug dealers.” > > Danica May is just one of more than a thousand Filipinos killed by unidentified gunmen between July 1, when President Roderigo Duterte took office, and August 19. Official statistics show that, in addition, police have killed 712 suspected “drug pushers and users” in the same time period. These killings suggest Duterte’s aggressive rhetoric advocating violent, extra-judicial solutions to crime in the Philippines has found willing takers. Last month, he exhorted Filipinos who knew of any drug addicts to “go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful.” This prompted the United Nations special rapporteur on summary executions, Agnes Callamard, to accuse Duterte of effectively granting the police and others “a license to kill.” The [del]in[/del]Justice Secretary of the Philippines claims that “Desperate times call for desperate measures.” And yet when one looks at the history of the war on drugs the “desperate” measure is the continuation of that failed war, now with even less justice. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/54 "2016-08-26T10:14:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Based on the reporting, I would say that almost 1% of the population is turning themselves into the police. Its not like the Phillipines is a journalistic black hole, why wouldn’t you trust the journalism coming out of there? I’m saying that it seems highly unlikely that 1% of the population are drug dealers. So who are these people that are turning themselves in out of fear of being killed? Do you think that is a successful program when seemingly innocent people are forced to choose prison over death? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/55 "2016-08-26T12:17:07Z")
1. NOT 600,000. 1. Who said it? Duarte himself! Turned themselves in out of fear of being killed as they were very overt in their drug dealings. Our countries don’t suffer from the kind of endemic corruption that infects all of the justice/police/army/courts/politics systems of nations such as these. This us a very difficult train to knock off its tracks! I don’t approve, I think it will lead to worse corruption. But, IF that’s avoided and corruption and drug dealing are near to eliminated, perhaps the people of this nation will feel it’s a price worth paying. After all, the innocents that die from this corruption and drug trade, get no due process, and the numbers far, far exceed those so far killed as dealers. I just think they alone will have to live with what they elected, and they alone will get to determine if this proves a gamble worth taking to wrestle power and return it to the people of this nation. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/56 "2016-08-26T13:16:36Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > 1. > > NOT 600,000. [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > About 600,000 people suspected of being drug dealers or users have turned themselves in to escape being killed since the antidrug campaign began, the authorities have said. However, I was wrong about them all the people turning themselves in being drug dealers. People who are users or suspected of being users are included in that 600,000 so my argument about 1 in 140 being dealers is wrong. You can ignore that part of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/57 "2016-08-26T15:47:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > One doesn’t need to suspect, it is reality. > > [Philippine Government’s ‘War on Drugs’ Claims Child Victim | Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/08/25/philippine-governments-war-drugs-claims-child-victim) > The [del]in[/del]Justice Secretary of the Philippines claims that “Desperate times call for desperate measures.” And yet when one looks at the history of the war on drugs the “desperate” measure is the continuation of that failed war, now with even less justice. Are you trying to say that the 5 year old girl was the target of the attack? Because it really looks like her grandfather was the intended target. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/58 "2016-08-26T16:33:05Z")
You mean there are negative consequences to vigilante murder squads??? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/59 "2016-08-26T17:19:26Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m saying that it seems highly unlikely that 1% of the population are drug dealers. So who are these people that are turning themselves in out of fear of being killed? Do you think that is a successful program when seemingly innocent people are forced to choose prison over death? Why do these people seem innocent to you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/60 "2016-08-26T17:20:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html?_r=0) > However, I was wrong about them all the people turning themselves in being drug dealers. People who are users or suspected of being users are included in that 600,000 so my argument about 1 in 140 being dealers is wrong. You can ignore that part of the argument. Wait. Are they killing drug USERS too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=4)