# If it works in the Phillipins should Mexico try the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748 "2016-08-23T18:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/81 "2016-08-27T01:04:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There are parts of Mexico where vigiliantism is preferable to what they have now, aren’t there? No. Vigilantism is not preferable. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/82 "2016-08-27T01:13:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No. Vigilantism is not preferable. I’ve got a little list. I do hope I am not on some one else’s little list. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/83 "2016-08-27T01:13:46Z")
so just sayin because in the us sharia doctrine dosent get enforced and most us moslems are considered corrupt by the Arabian imams that they should go around forming death squads to clean up corruption at the us mosques? Or what if someone more intelligent that the vigilantes,street gangs manages to take them over and go after his enemies based on what ever perceived slight he can imagine and then once he takes over the legal system he can just kill the vigilantes and say hes restoring law and order … I think that’s happened before but I cant remember where … That’s where that type of thinking can and usually ends up … ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/84 "2016-08-27T01:32:49Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. The ‘killing people because they wore glasses’ example I gave wasn’t just made up. They really did kill people for that in Cambodia. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/85 "2016-08-27T01:56:40Z")
It’s not like this is a new idea. We have plenty of examples of death squads. It doesn’t work. It turns neighborhoods into war zones, increases crime, and nearly inevitably turns into political violence. We have dozens of examples, and none of them end well. I can’t believe I even have to say this, but death squads are a bad idea and an exceptionally poor substitute for a criminal justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/86 "2016-08-27T17:51:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > No. Why do you think it would be better? So you think a society run by organized crime and drug lords is preferable to rough justice? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/87 "2016-08-27T17:52:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, that five year old girl referenced earlier in this thread was probably going to be killed anyway. No biggie, amirite? Not her necessarily but unless you can prove more innocent death as a result of the extrajudicial killings than when drug dealers ruled the streets, you are only looking at one side of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/88 "2016-08-27T17:55:29Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If the new government was serious about stripping away the power of drug cartels, they’d decriminalize drugs and set up an independent commission to identify and remove corrupt officials. So they should decriminalize crystal meth and set up an independent commission to identify and remove corrupt elected officials? So how does the president do that without the cooperation of a corrupt legislature? Who gets to pick the members of this commission? The President? What do you do when all the really easy palatable options, either don’t work or are politically impossible. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/89 "2016-08-27T17:56:39Z")
Interesting article in The New Yorker. Compares Duterte with the Stump. [Rodrigo Duterte’s Campaign of Terror in the Philippines | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/rodrigo-dutertes-campaign-of-terror-in-the-philippines)? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/90 "2016-08-27T18:05:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So you think a society run by organized crime and drug lords is preferable to rough justice? Based on the reported past of the current president what we have is virtually one crime boss that is consolidating power right now. What one usually gets from that is corruption and crime with official seals. Dictatorship usually follows. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/91 "2016-08-27T18:06:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who gets to pick the members of this commission? The President? An equally valid question is, “Who gets to pick the guys to kill?” If the government is in league with drug dealers, would they not kill people who kill drug dealers? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/92 "2016-08-27T18:10:29Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Let’s take a look at what Reporters Without Borders (RSF) had to say in response to a press conference from Duterte earlier this summer with my emphasis added. > > Oh and they they rank 138th in the RSF World Press Freedom Index. So 138 out of 180 (USA is 41). That’s not good, but India is 133, China is 172, Russia is 148, Israel is 101, Mexico is 149, Turkey is 151, etc. Do we think that these are also journalistic black holes and disregard news reports coming out of those places? > [@](#): > > The country already had issues with press freedom and violence against reporters. Now they have a President who is okay with them being assassinated for being a “son of a bitch” and claims the appropriate response to perceived defamation is violence. That President has shown a willingness to use extra-judicial violence on others. > > Why would I trust anything Phillipino journalists have to say about Duterte and extra-judicial violence?!? He basically put them on notice of possible violent repercussions before he started his extra-judicial killings. Yes, because journalists as a group are easily intimidated and don’t spread news about government lies in places like Russia and China where they are mean to reporters. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/93 "2016-08-27T18:16:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you don’t trust the government with the power to conduct arrests and trials, how do you trust them with the power to kill people? Well, I don’t but these folks in the Phillipines seem to trust Duarte who maintais a 90%+ approval rating despite all killings. Perhaps some of those being killed are horrible people that needed killing. > [@](#): > > Once the government starts solving its problems by killing people, do you really think it’s going to stop half wa We do that every time we go to war. > [@](#): > > Right now they’re killing criminals. Pretty soon they’ll be killing people who object to the killings. Then they’ll kill people who want to vote for somebody else besides the people in power. Then they’ll kill people who are rebelling against the government. Then they’ll kill people who might rebel. There is certainly a slippery slope issue. But as long as they maintain an open and honest democracy… Do you have some evidence that the democratic process is being subverted? That there is some sort of horrible bias or bigotry being exercised in determining who is being killed? > [@](#): > > It always goes that way. You start out killing drug lords and pretty soon you’re killing people because they wear glasses. cite? And do the killings have to be extrajudicial or would these killings be a problem no matter what? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/94 "2016-08-27T18:19:36Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Well, A.) no, not really - they’re both just different brands of shitty and B.) it is in fact the government doing these killings, not some random mob. I think that Dutarte seems to have made a good case for saying that he is not really part of the established government. People there seem to trust Dutarte in a way they don’t trust the government in general. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/95 "2016-08-27T18:21:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m not saying that, you straw man slayer. I was only remarking that indeed the innocent are also being killed. There are reasons why societies should not resort to vigilantism. The innocent were being killed on a daily basis before this. Do you think there are MORE innocents being killed by the vigilantes than by the criminals that they killed? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/96 "2016-08-27T18:22:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite? The entire history of death squads. I can think of a dozen times this has tried off the top of my head. “Hey, let’s just kill the people that bug us” is not a new idea in politics. Not surprisingly, extra-judicial violence has a long record of not being particularly helpful to law and order. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/97 "2016-08-27T18:22:54Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Maybe because “presumption of innocence” and “fair trial” have meaning? But, hey, if you want to call vigilante murders justice, go for it. Personally, I think that’s a rather poor stance. Ah so you are just assuming they are innocent but for all you know they could be child raping, drug pushing, slave trading, murdering thieves. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/98 "2016-08-27T18:28:50Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No. Vigilantism is not preferable. So you think the self defense leagues in Mexico (so far the only real speedbump the drug cartels seem to run into in Mexico (it certainly doesn’t seem to care much about the police, justice system or even the army)) should all stand down and put away their guns and go back to letting the criminals rape their daughters, kill their sons (or press them into service as a soldier in their drug wars and turn them into criminals) steal from them, beat them, kill them, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/99 "2016-08-27T18:30:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Based on the reported past of the current president what we have is virtually one crime boss that is consolidating power right now. > > What one usually gets from that is corruption and crime with official seals. Dictatorship usually follows. cite? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/100 "2016-08-27T18:31:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The innocent were being killed on a daily basis before this. Do you think there are MORE innocents being killed by the vigilantes than by the criminals that they killed? There is no evidence for what you claim here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=6)