# If it works in the Phillipins should Mexico try the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748 "2016-08-23T18:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/141 "2016-09-03T03:09:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Allah I was referring to was the constitutional limit on presidential terms: one. That should have been “All I was referring to…” I didn’t notice the autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/142 "2016-09-03T08:39:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Allah I was referring to was the constitutional limit on presidential terms: one. You asked whether Duterte plans to change the constitution – he does. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/143 "2016-09-03T21:12:50Z")
The president is a scumbag. I never really took a liking to the Philippines for some reason, and this guy is not helping matters. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/144 "2016-09-06T16:59:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That sale of straw men at Cosco must be ongoing. I’m sorry I thought you were talking about rigged elections. If you werent’ talking about rigged electiosn then what were you talking about? > [@](#): > > Eventually dictators do have to resort to electoral fraud, they may have indeed the support of many now, but eventually that is not a redeeming feature for the mistake most of the people are making. Oh you WERE talking about rigged elections. No evidence but you don’t like this guy and his policies so even if he hasn’t rigged elections YET, you are pretty sure he will? Because this popularly elected President is an dictator? > [@](#): > > The point that it is clear to me, but never to you it seems, is that the other poster was referring to what would come next, not how they got there to support a dictator. So what evidence do you have that this guy is ever going to have to rig an election? He is more popular in the Phillipines than Reagan is here. So why would he ever need to rig an election? He has been a politician for a long time, has there ever been any evidence that he rigged an election? No? But you’re sure he’s going to do it soon because you don’t like his human rights record towards alleged drug dealers. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/145 "2016-09-06T17:00:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’d like to repeat the request of what you imagine a successful outcome of this would be. Because the current scenario seems to be “Any angry violent person (especially drug dealers) can murder anybody and get away with it by calling their target a drug dealer”. The end game I’m anticipating here is that eventually a single, dominant group of murderous drug dealers will have consolidated their competition and murdered everybody who’s inclined to oppose them, and will then operate unopposed in a blissful environment of unopposed, possibly government-sanctioned corruption over a cowed populace. > > The idea that all the drug dealers will be killed and all the peaceful civilians will live happily ever after seems predicated on the assumption that peaceful civilians are much, much, MUCH better at murdering people than hardened, experienced criminals. This seems like an absurd assumption on the surface. The populace may like that romantic ideal of virtuous vigilante superiority, but I personally have doubts that Duterte was operating under such rosy assumptions when he gave the criminals carte blanche to murder people unchecked. Carte blanche? So the police are not invstigating any of the murders? They have not arrested or convicted anyone for murder since July? You sure about that? Or are you just assuming things not in evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/146 "2016-09-06T17:02:58Z")
Oh, they may have arrested people for murder. People who didn’t think of saying “I did it because (s)he was a drug dealer!” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/147 "2016-09-06T17:04:18Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > The president is a scumbag. I never really took a liking to the Philippines for some reason, and this guy is not helping matters. The Phillipines is heartbroken. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/148 "2016-09-06T17:07:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Oh, they may have arrested people for murder. People who didn’t think of saying “I did it because (s)he was a drug dealer!” Really? That’s all it takes? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/149 "2016-09-06T18:31:02Z")
This is like the “Proof for God” thread, in that the premise is being used to prove itself. “God exists because God obviously exists” = “The Philippines’ approach works because it obviously works.” I expect neither OP is prepared to entertain otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/150 "2016-09-06T20:30:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > This is like the “Proof for God” thread, in that the premise is being used to prove itself. > > “God exists because God obviously exists” = “The Philippines’ approach works because it obviously works.” I expect neither OP is prepared to entertain otherwise. Maybe you should read the title: “IF it works in the Philippines should Mexico try the same” I have been spending almost the entire thread defending against people who want to change the hypothetical by saying “but it doesn’t work so I don’t really get what you are asking” Where do I say that the Philipines approach obviously work? Where? I have been spending most of this thread trying to get people to entertain the fucking notion that it MIGHT. And if it DID, then should Mexico try the same thing. Most of the on point answers seem to be that the violation of human rights would overshadow any benefit that Mexico might derive from getting rid of the cartels because that sort of violence would OBVIOUSLY lead to dictatorship, rigged elections and the coming of the anti-Christ. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/151 "2016-09-06T20:33:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Oh you WERE talking about rigged elections. No evidence but you don’t like this guy and his policies so even if he hasn’t rigged elections YET, you are pretty sure he will? Because this popularly elected President is an dictator? History backs me on that one, you are only an ignorant of it. And once again, not all drug dealers or consumers deserve the fate Dutarte wants for them. You are only defending injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/152 "2016-09-06T21:02:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where do I say that the Philipines approach obviously work? Where? Again, you have yet to define “works” in this context. If drug traffic is reduced but 10,000 innocent people are killed in the process, did it work? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/153 "2016-09-06T22:01:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > History backs me on that one, you are only an ignorant of it. No, no it does not. There are a few notable examples where this happens but you it is nowhere near universal enough that you can say that this is even likely to happen. > [@](#): > > And once again, not all drug dealers or consumers deserve the fate Dutarte wants for them. You are only defending injustice. Regardless of whether or not you think they deserve their fate, if it brought crime to a screeching halt, what then? And I don’t think that Dutarte is targeting drug users so much as he is targetting drug dealers. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/154 "2016-09-06T22:03:02Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Again, you have yet to define “works” in this context. If drug traffic is reduced but 10,000 innocent people are killed in the process, did it work? Are you now changing the hypothetical so that it works but 10,000 innocents are killed? Why does everyone have so much trouble accepting the hypothetical as presented. If I asked “If our drone bombing program works in Syria against ISIS, should we use it elsewhere” most people would NOT say “but innocent people get killed so that means Obama is going to declare himself dictator for life” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/155 "2016-09-06T22:19:04Z")
So how many innocent lives lost \*do \*you consider acceptable when you define “works”? Which you haven’t yet, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/156 "2016-09-07T00:33:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you now changing the hypothetical so that it works but 10,000 innocents are killed? Why does everyone have so much trouble accepting the hypothetical as presented. 2400 people have been killed so far, with no end in sight. We have no way of knowing how many of them are drug dealers, drug users, rivals of the powerful, innocent bystanders or some combination. I’m not changing the hypothetical, I’m describing the situation on the ground. You’re taking a very rosy view of what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/157 "2016-09-07T00:48:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Maybe you should read the title: “IF it works in the Philippines should Mexico try the same” And as far as I can tell, the majority of your replies in this thread have been along the lines of “Yeah, yeah, innocents killed, court systems made irrelevant, populations living in fear, whatever, but what if it _worked_, would it be okay then?” i.e. not a lot of interest in the inescapable flaws of the premise, like someone who’s already presupposed God in order to “prove” God. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/158 "2016-09-07T01:06:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, no it does not. There are a few notable examples where this happens but you it is nowhere near universal enough that you can say that this is even likely to happen. For sure you are thinking about some fellows in Europe; but no, as usual your ignorance shows. I was talking of Latin America and several examples from my old country, I do know what happens when strong men decide they like the power they got first by legal ways, they then resort to electoral fraud to keep it. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Regardless of whether or not you think they deserve their fate, if it brought crime to a screeching halt, what then? And I don’t think that Dutarte is targeting drug users so much as he is targetting drug dealers. As pointed before the city looks better on the surface now but Dutarte did not pacify the city he ruled for many years. Best bet is that the henchmen he used then are ruling unopposed now and killing the ones that they suspect of opposing them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/159 "2016-09-07T19:07:25Z")
Hey, just spitballing here, but what if it _worked_ (for some as-yet-undefined value of “worked”) if once a year we drew lots and one random person out of 100 was gloriously disemboweled in the public square? Sure, it’d be a bit messy, but don’t fight the hypothetical - _what if it worked?!_ Should Sweden try it? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748/160 "2016-09-07T20:00:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, just spitballing here, but what if it _worked_ (for some as-yet-undefined value of “worked”) if once a year we drew lots and one random person out of 100 was gloriously disemboweled in the public square? Sure, it’d be a bit messy, but don’t fight the hypothetical - _what if it worked?!_ Should Sweden try it? You know overpopulation is a serious problem in some areas. What if we had a system where everyone over 30 had to honorably commit suicide to make room for the next generation? We could make a public life-affirming celebration out of it - call it _Carousel_ or something. Surely this is something that could reasonably be explored in a country with a tremendous population density - say, Monaco. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-it-works-in-the-phillipins-should-mexico-try-the-same/763748.md?page=9)