Oh I see, you are aware of how ignorant you are appearing so you have to move the goal post.
My point was about people that gained power democratically and then used electoral fraud to keep it.
In El Salvador the military found a way to get around term limits (one president, one 5 year term) by putting a military candidate and then another one from the same group for decades, the first one in 1962 actually made a coup and was selected by the conservative party of then and while there are doubts about the elections then he won then and the military continued to put their members in rotation and there was a good chunk of the people that supported them back then.
It all unraveled when the 70’s came by and people demanded change, there was also then the start of election observers that did began to report on the growing fraud the military had to do to keep power.
It ended in the 80’s when the last fraud in 1977 became so blatant that it convinced many to revolt.
You did not dismiss it as fantasy, me and others are just saying that is what you are doing.
As others showed, it is working in many places and with less people killed or arrested, the key is to prevent criminals from gaining so much money and power to corrupt governments.
Incidentally the previous short video from “In A Nutshell” I linked to was not seen completely because this was clearly missed by Damuri Ajashi:
The more likely outcome of what Duterte is doing will be more corruption and death as he is only following a path that is in reality less effective than other solutions. Regardless of how popular his reprehensible plan is.
Plus, getting your drugs legally reduces the cool factor enormously. Going to a clean place with hospital-green walls and having someone in a white coat making sure you don’t have abscesses is not ma-cho, it’s nothing worth struttin’ and cockledoodlin’ about. So, it reduces entry.
When I contemplate the idea of attempting to destroy any ill-defined group, I’m inclined to think of this quote:
But as his statement implies, it is not so simple. Even if you could define the “evil” in society by their involvement in drugs, there’s never even a bright line on who needs to be incarcerated forever, much less murdered in the street. The only criteria where this sort of stupid idea “works” is if your objective is a body count. That’s not even a way to win a war, much less solve a social problem. Even a war isn’t really a free-for-all where you can simply say “enemy!” and shoot anyone you want. It’s easier to get away with that kind of behavior, but you’ve still got more chance of being prosecuted for settling a personal hash under cover of war than you seem to have under the Duterte regime.
And really, if I were a drug dealer or user under such a regime, I’d immediately start working on a plot to kill as many of the supporters of said regime as I could before they got their hands on me, preferably while framing them as a drug dealer or user. The line has been drawn, why wait for them to come to me?
Yes, this is a hypothetical based on the assumption that this actually works to reduce drug violence. It is not an argument that this is actually working, its too early to tell.
No, your point was that this happens A LOT. It happens frequently enough that we can assume that this guy with 90% approval rate will do it and therefore we can treat him like he would even though he has done nothing to indicate he would be a dictator.
I was born in a country with a similar history. South Korea had a long period of military dictatorship but you can’t really say that those Presidents were democratically elected if they got into power via coup and they had shady elections. Dutarte has a 90% approval rating. Not really the same thing at all.
So NOT actually democratically elected more like military coups followed by military dictatorships, and nothing close to 90% approval ratings.
So it started off undemocratically and continued to be undemocratic. Still not seeing the analogy.
No, you misunderstand me. I think it is fantasy to analogize military coups followed by rigged election with a guy who was popularly elected with 90% approval ratings and call the guy a dictator.
Many places? You mean Switzerland? That’s not many places, that’s ONE place?
I can point to one place where draconian rules and mob action dramatically reduced drug use. China used to have the world’s worst drug problem. The Communists (and their draconian policies) significantly reduced drug use in that country.
I think you meant to link to:
We can have a debate about drug policy. I think we might end up pretty close (especially wrt pot), but 90%+ of the people in the Philippines want to try this tactic right now. But how does that help Mexico if all the crime is due to demand in the USA?
Again, how do you measure how many innocent people were killed during this process? And could you accomplish the same results (fewer overdoses and deaths) by legalizing and regulating drugs without the lawlessness and chaos?
Yes, even a mass murdering child rapist probably has SOME good in him.
Yes, you can camouflage a personal vendetta as mob justice if the guy you kill was a drug dealer, some of the people involved in the mob justice might think that criminal killing each other is a feature not a bug. Or do you think that the cops have just stopped investigating murders? That you can kill the otherwise law abiding guy that had an affair with your wife, stick a drug dealer sign on it and have the cops and everybody in the neighborhood suddenly say “OMG, I didn’t know he was a drug dealer, well justice has prevailed” Have you ever lived in a neighborhood with drug dealers? I grew up in an immigrant neighborhood in NYC in the 1970’s, everybody including the cops knew who the drug dealers in the community were.
As for the criminals killing the mob, that is not what has been happening. I mean why don’t criminals just kill all the cops? It would make their lives a lot easier.
Without a trial, none of your assertions are actually believable. As far as I can tell, folks are getting away with murder when they can frame their victim as a drug dealer. Nobody appears to be attempting to prove them wrong in a court. So, yeah, it does look like the police aren’t investigating murders when they’re performed against a certain segment of the population, provided a packet of meth can be found at the scene.
I’ve lived in places where people were “known” to be drug dealers. The common wisdom was often complete bullshit, and the people suspected of being drug dealers weren’t. How did I know? Because I bought from the actual drug dealer no one suspected, and knew the one falsely assumed to be a drug dealer. I also knew of a set of parents who were well-known to be upstanding, but were secretly drug users. So, yeah, if you had implemented this in your neighborhood, you would most likely kill a few innocents under your smug “just knowing” who the drug dealer and users were, and you wouldn’t solve your problem.
I honestly can’t think of a more stupid method of law enforcement than removing the rule of law, especially WRT murder.
Decriminalization worked in Portugal, too. You can throw the end of Prohibition in the US in there, as well. Various other countries have taken half-measures (such as permitting drugs for personal use, but not manufacture or sale).
It’s fair to say that decriminalization has a better track record than death squads, which are the very definition of lawlessness and chaos.
Again the straw men are on sale for you to use them so much,
It has happened often enough that not taking that into account is foolish.
The point is that even then many of the few that looked at election had doubts about them but most nations did accept that those military guys were democratically elected, the evidence for using fraud came later.
Indeed, they “worked” by using military power and repression, that still required that a good number of Salvadorans were there supporting it. And I can tell you that that was the case then, the propaganda of the cold war was very effective in convincing many that supporting the military guys was a good idea. Just about the same kind of misled support for authoritarians is what we are seeing in the Philippines today.
And once again you only show how ignorant you are, as I pointed out the elections that took place then were not contested or declared fraudulent as the candidates then were not much different, the point is that the military guys had the support to get elected. And methods like that and systems like that were prevalent in Latin America.
Well, what you point there and with enphasis shows only to all about how ignorant you are.
Well we’ve got the philippine police saying that they ARE invstigating murders and we’ve got you saying nuh-unh. Do you have a cite? Or do you just know in your heart that this must be true. Because the critics of these extrajudicial killings aren’t making this claim and they aren’t claiming that some significant percentage of these killings is of innocents.
People didn’t sell drugs on the street in your neighborhood, did they?
You are assuming there was some significant amount of rule of law there to be removed.