# If it's December, it must be time to hate the BCS. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211 "2002-12-03T14:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/41 "2002-12-05T16:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*But I’d still be right, even if it were dead right. It doesn’t matter who _wins_ the Rose Bowl this year. Nobody will remember or care. > If Iowa were that good, they’d have beaten Iowa State. But they didn’t. So they aren’t. So they’re not going to the bowl that matters. Get over it. \*\* What a ridiculous assertion. One of the reasons why there is a BCS instead of a straight playoff system is that there are other post season games “that matter”. Post season college football is **more** than just determining a national championship…it’s not like the NCAA Mens Basketball Tournament…(unless they change the format to a playoff system.) Saying that **nobody** cares about who goes to or wins the Rose Bowl is a silly statement that plenty of folks in Washington, South Bend, Iowa City and California would be more than happy to dispute…if for no other reason than financial payoff to the school and conference. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/42 "2002-12-05T16:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Post season college football is more than just determining a national championship… Not in DII, DI-AA, DIII… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/43 "2002-12-05T16:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*It doesn’t matter who _wins_ the Rose Bowl this year. Nobody will remember or care. \*\* Not so fast, **E**. If **Sofa King** ’s sulfur-scented scenario materializes, and Virginia Tech beats Miami on Saturday, then any bowl featuring Iowa is going to be big news. The reason: A loss by Miami would likely put Georgia into the Fiesta Bowl against Ohio State. Georgia could enter that game ranked number 2 in the BCS standings, _but number 3 in the polls_, behind Iowa. Which means you’d have (as far as the polls are concerned), number 1 Ohio State vs. number 3 Georgia in the Fiesta, and then number 2 Iowa playing somewhere else (presumably, the Rose Bowl). In the interest of full disclosure: GO DAWGS! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/44 "2002-12-05T17:32:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PatrickM \* > \*\*mhendo, we’re obviously discussing something far afield from the flaws of the BCS, but what the hell. I consider the English football division system impractical for the reasons you inferred from my prior post, and also because implementing it would require admissions from the powers that be - ie, college presidents, athletic directors and coaches - that their squad doesn’t have a chance to contend for the national championship this year and therefore should settle for a spot in the second division. Such persons are loathe to make such an admission - which would perhaps dishearten their fans/customers from spending oodles of money - under any circumstances, even when it is painfully obvious that their squad doesn’t have a chance to contend. College sports big wigs are out to make a buck - who isn’t? - and they are not ever going to allow a second class label to be affixed to their product, even when and if deserve it. \*\* Ah, now i see what you’re getting at, and i’m sure you’re totally correct. It’s not so much that my system wouldn’t work to produce a national champion if implemented, but rather that the delusions and egomania and self-importance and parochialsim that are so rife in college football would never allow the system in the first place. I’ll concede that my idea will never be considered, but stick with my assertion that it would be the most comprehensive and accurate way of determining the national champion, year in and year out, _if_ that were the main consideration in college football. Nice talking to you about it. 🙂 Meanwhile, going back to the Notre Dame issue, while i understand now how and why they became so popular, the ubiquity of the Fighting Irish in the media has triggered a primitive impulse in me, so that i find myself forced to cheer for whichever team is playing against them. I know this is irrational, but i’m afraid i suffer the same affliction when it comes to the New York Yankees, and the St Louis Rams when Kurt Warner is QB. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/45 "2002-12-05T17:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > The reason: A loss by Miami would likely put Georgia into the Fiesta Bowl against Ohio State. Georgia could enter that game ranked number 2 in the BCS standings, _but number 3 in the polls_, behind Iowa. So? Why is either Iowa or Georgia more deserving than the other? They seem to have had directly comparable seasons. But if the conclusion is that there should be a real playoff with at least 4 teams in it, I certainly agree. There should, and can, and we’re getting there. But a playoff might still leave out the people who, even now, conveniently forget to mention their non-zero losses this year. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/46 "2002-12-05T17:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*What a ridiculous assertion. > > Saying that **nobody** cares about who goes to or wins the Rose Bowl is a silly statement that plenty of folks in Washington, South Bend, Iowa City and California would be more than happy to dispute…if for no other reason than financial payoff to the school and conference. \*\* Ridiculous, you say? Without looking it up, who won _last_ year’s non-title bowls? Only die-hard fans know, and none can say why it matters now. Fans care about _going_, sure, but there are no consequences for _winning_. We need a real playoff system, like every other frickin’ team sport and every other level of _football_. Let’s quit screwing around, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/47 "2002-12-05T18:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Ridiculous, you say? Without looking it up, who won _last_ year’s non-title bowls? Only die-hard fans know, and none can say why it matters now. Fans care about _going_, sure, but there are no consequences for _winning_. > > \*\* I suspect that many die hard fans care about **winning** as well. In Iowa’s case…many folks consider the Alamo Bowl (an even more “minor” bowl than this years Rose Bowl) victory last year a turning point in the Iowa program. Almost all of the televised Iowa games had the commentators saying so as well. \*\* > [@](#): > > We need a real playoff system, like every other frickin’ team sport and every other level of _football_. Let’s quit screwing around, m’kay? \*\* No disagreement. Of course that wasn’t what this thread was about… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/48 "2002-12-05T19:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > So? Why is either Iowa or Georgia more deserving than the other? They seem to have had directly comparable seasons. You miss the point. You said the Rose Bowl doesn’t matter. In my scenario, it would matter, because it could (in spite of the BCS) produce the number 1 team in both polls. In my scenario, #3 Georgia plays #1 Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl. Meanwhile, #2 Iowa plays either USC or Washington State in the Rose. Now, say Georgia beats Ohio State, and Iowa wins the Rose Bowl. Iowa likely moves to #1 in both polls, no? Conclusion: In my scenario, the Rose Bowl would produce the “national chmpion” (depending on how you want to define that term). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/49 "2002-12-05T19:57:08Z")
No. USC and WSU are seriously inferior opponents compared to OSU. Beating OSU would gain UGA more karma points than Iowa would gain. UGA would be the champ. Hence, the Fiesta Bowl would decide the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/50 "2002-12-05T20:04:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*You miss the point. > > You said the Rose Bowl doesn’t matter. In my scenario, it would matter, because it could (in spite of the BCS) produce the number 1 team in both polls.\*\* Nope. The Coachs’ poll is bound by the BCS agreement to give the Sear’s Trophy to the winner of the BCS national championship game. The writers can do whatever the hell they want. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/51 "2002-12-05T20:11:43Z")
Go Trojans! * * * My your yuletide log slip from the fire and burn your house down. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/52 "2002-12-05T20:46:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > \*\*Nope. The Coachs’ poll is bound by the BCS agreement to give the Sear’s Trophy to the winner of the BCS national championship game. The writers can do whatever the hell they want. \*\* Hmm. Wasn’t aware of that. (But as a Georgia fan, I must say I am glad to hear it.) Even so, in my scenario, the Rose Bowl would still “matter,” since it could produce the number 1 team in the AP poll (Iowa). And since (in the absence of a playoff system) the “National Championship” is still a mythical beast, that would be enough to give Iowa at least some claim on the title. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/53 "2002-12-05T20:53:16Z")
Yes, the chance is there, but it would take an incredible show of dominance from the Rose Bowl winner, and an incredible amount of ineptitude from the Fiesta Bowl winner for the AP to deviate from the Coaches on this, regardless of the scenario. I’d love to see Iowa get a chance at it, but the odds are simply astronomical (though still finite). ---
**Author:** ![SpasticKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@SpasticKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpasticKitty)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211/54 "2002-12-06T05:30:46Z")
Let’s go Mountaineers! SpasticKitty (who’s still celebrating WVU’s totally bitching victories over Virginia Tech and Pitt) WOOO!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-its-december-it-must-be-time-to-hate-the-bcs/140211.md?page=2)