# If James Was Jesus' Brother...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751 "2011-12-29T20:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/1 "2011-12-29T20:07:10Z")
… what would the name be in Aramaeic? Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/2 "2011-12-29T20:11:16Z")
Yaʻaqov bar Yosep. (IANAn Aramaic scholar, but these is the Aramaic forms of the name and patronym per wiki.) James=Jacob, and Joseph is sometimes transliterated Yose **f** and sometimes Yose **p** so I’m guessing it sounds kind of like both but not exactly like either our ‘p’ and ‘f’. The [St. James Ossuary](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholic.com%2Fdocuments%2Fossuary-of-james-i-burial-box-of-st-james-found&ei=gMn8Tv-vIMPf0QHuj5G_Dg&usg=AFQjCNFmzESGztbI7hXMnPF3zHCmSRjpbQ) discovered a few years ago bore the Aramaic inscription (possibly a forgery) Ya’akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua- “=Jacob son of Joseph brother of Jesus”. [Picture](http://www.jesusgranskad.se/james_ossuary_inscription.htm) with notes debunking the authenticity. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/3 "2011-12-29T20:19:13Z")
Thanks very much for the links _and_ the information, **Sampiro**! 🙂 The notes on the lettering were especially interesting! Quasi ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/4 "2011-12-29T21:12:33Z")
Aramaic is a “compact” language, in that one single word is used to describe things that we are accustomed to have a bunch of individual words. “Brother” is an example. In Aramaic, “brother” signifies a familial relationship. Full brother, half brother, step brother, even cousin, are all called “brother” in Aramaic. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/5 "2011-12-29T21:30:01Z")
I find historical novels about Jesus extremely interesting, and I especially would like to know more about (St.) James and I am sorry that the ossuary was deemed a fake. Obviously there is much more about Jesus (the man) we have yet to learn. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/6 "2011-12-29T21:36:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Yaʻaqov bar Yosep. (IANAn Aramaic scholar, but these is the Aramaic forms of the name and patronym per wiki.) James=Jacob, and Joseph is sometimes transliterated Yose **f** and sometimes Yose **p** so I’m guessing it sounds kind of like both but not exactly like either our ‘p’ and ‘f’. Almost. The letter in question can be either p or f, depending on the context. I’m pretty bad at Hebrew and don’t remember my lessons, but I think that usually it’s a p at the start of the word and an f in the middle or end. Yosef has a simple f sound at the end. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/7 "2011-12-30T00:04:58Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > I find historical novels about Jesus extremely interesting, and I especially would like to know more about (St.) James and I am sorry that the ossuary was deemed a fake. Obviously there is much more about Jesus (the man) we have yet to learn. > > Thanks > > Q **Quasimodem** look for a novel; at your library by Frank Yerby entitled Judas, My Brother. you will probably like it. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/8 "2011-12-30T00:27:38Z")
Thank you, **longhair75**! 🙂 I’ll see if it’s on the Kindle! Thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/9 "2011-12-30T00:40:38Z")
To Quasimodo: If you can expand your interest to historical fiction about Palestine, I wholeheartedly recommend The Source, by James Michener. Actually, damn near ALL books by James Michener are outstanding! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/10 "2011-12-30T00:44:25Z")
**James Michener** , the writer who starts most of his novels taking one back to pre-historical times? 😉 I _love_ that guy, but have not read The Source! Thanks for the suggestion! Q ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/11 "2011-12-30T00:49:26Z")
EEEEp, **Quasimodem,** many apologies. Yes, THAT James Michener. If you are familiar with his work, then you will LOVE The Source. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/12 "2011-12-30T00:53:14Z")
For what? That is my all time favorite Victor Hugo novel!!! Hence the name. I have had it since I went online in 1992, but now there are a bunch of us running around the net. I believe I have dibs on the name, but I’m not sure. No apologies necessary, **VOW** , really! ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/13 "2011-12-30T02:31:23Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > “Brother” is an example. In Aramaic, “brother” signifies a familial relationship. Full brother, half brother, step brother, even cousin, are all called “brother” in Aramaic. Is that actually the case ? I thought in languages where is there is no word for “cousin” then the explicit relationship is spelled out (e.g. “my brother’s son”). I don’t want to get into GD territory (and would happily accept a cite that I am wrong). This always struck me (rather like the whole thing about the “eye of the needle” being a gate in Jerusalem) that later theologians came up with to get themselves of out bind. With bloodlines being so important those days (and the Greek word for cousin being used elsewhere in the New Testament). ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/14 "2011-12-30T02:46:42Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Is that actually the case ? I thought in languages where is there is no word for “cousin” then the explicit relationship is spelled out (e.g. “my brother’s son”). Then what is your argument? Sorry, if I missed the point!🙂 Quasi ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/15 "2011-12-30T03:19:19Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Then what is your argument? Do you have a cite for the fact that in Aramaic the word for brother would typically be used mean many different relationships, such as cousin, etc., rather than something more explicit such as “my uncle’s son”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/16 "2011-12-30T06:21:06Z")
To griffin1977 The use of “brother” to signify other relationships is something I was taught. I don’t have my apologetics’ reference materials with me, so I can’t give you book and page. The New Testament was written in Greek, but keep in mind the language that was spoken in Palestine during the time of Christ was Aramaic. The Aramaic vs Greek debates also arise when discussing the renaming of Simon to Peter. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/17 "2011-12-30T16:13:56Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > **Quasimodem** > look for a novel; at your library by Frank Yerby entitled Judas, My Brother. > you will probably like it. Ditto this. It’s a novel, but Yerby probably used more footnotes and had a better annotated bibliography than most popular historians writing non-fiction use. ---
**Author:** ![SGT42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SGT42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SGT42)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/18 "2011-12-31T12:29:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Yaʻaqov bar Yosep. (IANAn Aramaic scholar, but these is the Aramaic forms of the name and patronym per wiki.) James=Jacob, and Joseph is sometimes transliterated Yose **f** and sometimes Yose **p** so I’m guessing it sounds kind of like both but not exactly like either our ‘p’ and ‘f’. > > The [St. James Ossuary](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholic.com%2Fdocuments%2Fossuary-of-james-i-burial-box-of-st-james-found&ei=gMn8Tv-vIMPf0QHuj5G_Dg&usg=AFQjCNFmzESGztbI7hXMnPF3zHCmSRjpbQ) discovered a few years ago bore the Aramaic inscription (possibly a forgery) Ya’akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua- “=Jacob son of Joseph brother of Jesus”. [Picture](http://www.jesusgranskad.se/james_ossuary_inscription.htm) with notes debunking the authenticity. Anyone knows how Ya’akov became James in English and Tiago is Spanish and Portuguese? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/19 "2011-12-31T15:38:40Z")
> [@SGT42](#): > > Anyone knows how Ya’akov became James in English and Tiago is Spanish and Portuguese? Think _Othello_. Iago was a transitional form. Sant’ Iago \> Santiago \> San Diego. (Note that Spanish **also** has a doublet of _Jaime_, pronouced homophonically with “Hymie.”) For James, take Aram. Ya’akov \> Gr. Iakovos \> Latin Iacobus \> Late Latin variant Iacomus \> James ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-james-was-jesus-brother/607751/20 "2011-12-31T15:45:21Z")
“Hymie.” So I ruptured **Dondra’s** “James” all those years ago??? Y’all better _not_ tell her I wrote that just now!!! 😉 Quasi