# If Jesus was a poor carpenter how would his customers get justice for his delivering bad work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157 "2013-11-30T21:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/41 "2013-12-22T00:37:19Z")
And Joseph, wheresoever he went into the city, took the Lord Jesus with him, where he was sent for to work to make gates, or milk pails, or sieves, or boxes; the Lord Jesus was with him wheresoever he went. And as often as Joseph had anything in his work, to make longer or shorter, or wider, or narrower, the Lord Jesus would stretch his hand toward it. And presently it became as Joseph would have it. So that he had no need to finish anything with his own hands, for he was not very skilful at his carpenter’s trade. I Infancy 16:1-4 [as printed in World Publishing “Lost Books of the Bible” 1926] Unca Cece speaks to this tome’s credibility [[What’s up with the “lost books of the Bible”? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1016/whats-up-with-the-lost-books-of-the-bible)] ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/42 "2013-12-22T00:45:07Z")
What jumps out at me is that in today’s world, these are more tasks associated with a cabinet-making rather than carpentry. This passage doesn’t even mention carpens. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/43 "2013-12-22T00:51:49Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is everyone forgetting who this guy’s father is? You don’t do a thing unless you want to burn for all eternity. Or at least an immediate smiting. > 😃 Can anonymous Roman soldiers do all of that? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/44 "2013-12-22T00:59:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Can anonymous Roman soldiers do all of that? 😕 You’re thinking of Brian of Jerusalem … different Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/45 "2013-12-22T01:00:22Z")
No, I think I’ve got the right one, heh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/46 "2013-12-22T13:50:07Z")
AK84: > [@](#): > > I really really doubt that Nazereth would have had something so formal. No, **Hello Again** has it (almost) right. According to Jewish law (not written down in the Mishnah about a century or so after Jesus’s time, but those teachings were certainly already in circulation by then, and many of the Rabbis quoted in the Mishnah were his contemporaries), any Jewish town with more than 120 people was supposed to have a formal court. If the population of Nazareth was 500-1000, and I’ll assume it was a mostly Jewish town, they would have had one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/47 "2013-12-23T00:49:21Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > In the book _Zealot_, Aslan suggests the word used “tekton”, actually meant day labourer as well as woodworker. . Pretty much wrong. > **[Tektōn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn)** > > The Ancient Greek noun tektōn (τέκτων) is a common term for an artisan/craftsman, in particular a carpenter, woodworker, or builder. The term is frequently contrasted with an ironworker, or smith (χαλκεύς) and stone-worker or mason (λιθολόγος, λαξευτής). > Tektōn (τέκτων) is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root \*tetḱ-, which means "to carve, to chisel, to mold." It is comparable to the Sanskrit takṣan, literally "wood-cutter". > "Architect" derives from ἀρχιτέκτων (arkhitéktōn, "master builder... Anyway, back to the OP, the Romans had a excellent and quite fair court system. However, like today, if you were very very rich you could hire the best lawyers and even bribe the jury. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/48 "2013-12-23T01:50:12Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Can anonymous Roman soldiers do all of that? 😕 > [@watchwolf49](#): > > You’re thinking of Brian of Jerusalem … different Bible. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > No, I think I’ve got the right one, heh. 😉 See post #6. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/49 "2013-12-23T01:52:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > See post #6. A heavy-metal band from Texas was Jesus’ father? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/50 "2013-12-23T01:54:31Z")
Wait, who’s whooshing whom here? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/51 "2013-12-23T01:56:26Z")
If you look around the room and can’t spot the whooshee, you’re probably it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/52 "2013-12-23T02:01:46Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is everyone forgetting who this guy’s father is? You don’t do a thing unless you want to burn for all eternity. Or at least an immediate smiting. > 😃 > [@PlainJain](#): > > Pantera? **VIRAG** (_Agueshaken, profuse yellow spawn foaming over his bony epileptic lips._) She sold lovephiltres, whitewax, orange flower. Panther, the Roman centurion, polluted her with his genitories. (_He sticks out a flickering phosphorescent scorpion tongue, his hand on his fork._) Messiah! He burst her tympanum. (_With gibbering baboon’s cries he jerks his hips in the cynical spasm_.) Hik! Hek! Hak! Hok! Huk! Kok! Kuk! —_Ulysses_, Circe ETA: Ahem, look around yourself. ;)🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/53 "2013-12-23T02:34:41Z")
Oh! She meant Panthera. I see. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/54 "2013-12-23T03:21:18Z")
I re-signed in just to post this: Hah! With love, till we meet again on the lists, Leo (The bit I posted is said by a nightmarish Virag, which means “bloom” in Hungarian, speaking to his son Leo.) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/55 "2013-12-26T23:07:31Z")
You know, “tekton” is a Greek word. The Aramaic and Hebrew word is “naggar.” There is an idiom “naggar ben naggar,” or “craftsman son of a craftsman,” which meant “very wise person,” and an expression that was current in the first century “It would take a ‘naggar ben naggar’ to explain this”; ie, “this is very confusing,” or “quite a puzzle,” or “complicated.” It is very likely that there was a story in Aramaic about Jesus returning to his home town all hippie-fied, with his band of unwashed disciples, who were managing to make a living out of what must have seemed like a hybrid of fortune-telling, and plain old begging by able-bodied people. What the hell happened to normal (not to mention humble) people to make them think that they had a direct line to G-d, or the world owed them a living? Not even "naggar ben naggar can explain it. The first Greek to write down this story found it a little confusing. He couldn’t make sense of the idiom, and took it literally, and maybe his Aramaic wasn’t so great to begin with. He also didn’t understand the Jewish self-deprecating style of writing, which could tell the story from the locals’ viewpoint (thus disrespecting Jesus), and not expect the reader to adopt it. Instead of a slightly humorous story that references angels who come unrecognized, the story becomes a story about how stupid people in Jesus’ hometown are, and instead of the reader being left to infer a moral (and pat himself on the back for being wise, if he does), the writer invents one about prophets going unrecognized in their hometowns-- which probably has some truth, but probably wasn’t in the original story. And in the process, Jesus and his (step?)-father become carpenters. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/56 "2013-12-27T05:54:14Z")
Here’s an account of how one instance of Jesus’ poor handiwork was handled: [Peter Cook & Dudley Moore - Gospel Truth Part Two - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5vdiM3FhwE) ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157/57 "2013-12-27T16:57:10Z")
“Poor carpenter” does not mean an unskilled builder, but a builder without money. In those days anyone without land was poor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-jesus-was-a-poor-carpenter-how-would-his-customers-get-justice-for-his-delivering-bad-work/675157.md?page=2)