# If Kim Il-sung was the "Great Leader" and Kim Jong-il was the "Dear Leader" . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813 "2011-12-20T04:09:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/21 "2011-12-20T15:38:56Z")
In all of this, why has the CIA escaped all criticism? They spend billions $$ monitoring places like N Korea-and yet, nobody saw this coming? Why have a CIA if you get better intelligence from the morning newspaper?:smack: ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/22 "2011-12-20T15:51:43Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In all of this, why has the CIA escaped all criticism? They spend billions $$ monitoring places like N Korea-and yet, nobody saw this coming? > Why have a CIA if you get better intelligence from the morning newspaper?:smack: Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/23 "2011-12-20T15:55:57Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In all of this, why has the CIA escaped all criticism? They spend billions $$ monitoring places like N Korea-and yet, nobody saw this coming? It’s not just the CIA. [Nobody knew about it until North Korea announced it.](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/world/asia/in-detecting-kim-jong-il-death-a-gobal-intelligence-failure.html?_r=1&ref=world) ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/24 "2011-12-20T15:57:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In all of this, why has the CIA escaped all criticism? They spend billions $$ monitoring places like N Korea-and yet, nobody saw this coming? > Why have a CIA if you get better intelligence from the morning newspaper?:smack: Sometimes a sudden death is actually a sudden death. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/25 "2011-12-20T16:00:46Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > When I see him, all I can think of is Mr. Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man I don’t know. To me he looks more like an Asian version of Newman from Seinfeld. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/26 "2011-12-20T16:12:47Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Sometimes a sudden death is actually a sudden death. Of course, in this case, its entirely possible they (that is, They) were keeping the Dear Leader in cold storage until they judged the moment propitious to announce his death. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/27 "2011-12-20T16:19:07Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Sometimes a sudden death is actually a sudden death. And, he’d been quite sick for some time, so I don’t think the fact that he died came as much of a shock to anyone. As far as the CIA not finding out about it immediately…my understanding is that a lot of the best intelligence which any spy agency can collect comes from actual agents on the ground. And, North Korea has apparently been a very difficult country for other powers to be able to get agents in place. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/28 "2011-12-20T19:35:32Z")
The CIA is famously full of blabbermouths who come forward and tell the world everything they know immediately after something in the world happens. I can’t think of an reason why them telling the press we know for a fact Kim-Jong-il died at 11:22am on Dec 12th might jeopardize their intelligence… I’m going to go out on a limb here and say as important as **Ralph124c** is I don’t think the CIA shares everything they know with him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/29 "2011-12-20T19:39:34Z")
Of the Dear Great Successor, Kim Jong-un It is (whispered) he might be a wrong ‘un Finds it all okey-dokey To slam his bulgoki To a Hyundai, with passion and longin’! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/30 "2011-12-20T20:45:58Z")
Oh please, oh please, let North Koreans call him “Fearless Leader.” It’s too much to hope for, but still, I can dream… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/31 "2011-12-20T20:50:59Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Oh please, oh please, let North Koreans call him “Fearless Leader.” Sharrup you mouf! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/32 "2011-12-20T20:52:35Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Oh please, oh please, let North Koreans call him “Fearless Leader.” > > It’s too much to hope for, but still, I can dream… Iz makink beeg trouble for Moose und Squirrel und Dog! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/33 "2011-12-20T20:53:07Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Oh please, oh please, let North Koreans call him"Fearless Leader." > > It’s too much to hope for, but still, I can dream… Wikipedia says that was one of Kim Jong-il’s epithets. Dahling. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/34 "2011-12-20T20:56:40Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Brilliant Leader. You heard it here first. Actually, I heard it from the North Koreans first, a while back. Damn kid went to college. A SWISS college! He’s brilliant I say! BRILLIANT!!! Before long we’ll hear about how he’s invented pizza and ramen noodles and a wonderful new role-playing game called _Capitalists and Castles_ played with a special set of 4,6,8,10, 12 and 20 sided dice that he personally invented. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/35 "2011-12-21T01:57:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In all of this, why has the CIA escaped all criticism? They spend billions $$ monitoring places like N Korea-and yet, nobody saw this coming? > Why have a CIA if you get better intelligence from the morning newspaper?:smack: Could be, of course, that the CIA made all this happen in the first place and just isn’t telling anyone? In fact, I am not the first one to speculate that all those other world powers that were caught by surprise actually weren’t caught by surprise, but just kept real quiet so as not to disclose that they have better intelligence that they ever let on. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/36 "2011-12-21T02:45:43Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Damn kid went to college. A SWISS college! So that would make him Der Lieder! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/37 "2011-12-21T21:58:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . what will they call Kim Jong-un? Well, if he can combine and condense just the best parts of his father and grandfather, he’ll be the…Leader’s Digest ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/38 "2011-12-21T23:45:18Z")
The Un-Cola. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/39 "2011-12-22T02:48:08Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The Un-Cola. So far, the Un-Koala. Damn Jung-Uns. No respect for their elders… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813/40 "2011-12-23T12:43:02Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > So far, the Un-Koala. He eats nothing but eucalyptus leaves? And has a bifurcated penis? Wow. He’s stranger than I thought… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-kim-il-sung-was-the-great-leader-and-kim-jong-il-was-the-dear-leader/606813.md?page=3)