# If Latinos in the U.S. don't assimilate, so what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066 "2006-04-10T13:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/41 "2006-04-11T10:43:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **And** the Irish and the Germans. Good point. 100 years ago the upper Midwest had a number of farming towns where everybody spoke German. Lawrence Welk, though born in such a town --and thereby a native-born American – never even learned English until he was 21. But…and this also has some relevance…he never did learn it really well, and he had one band quit on him because of it. For instance he’d ask the vocalist to please step up to the “microscope”. (All this comes from his autobiography, which is actually a pretty good read even if you don’t care for the music.) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/42 "2006-04-11T12:05:41Z")
> [@suezeekay](#): > > Okay. I think when foreigners come to this country they should assimilate because otherwise, on a greater level, the country loses it cohesiveness; on a smaller level, the fact that Mexicans stare at your boobs and crotch when you walk by really bothers me and I think that someone would have to be stupid not to at least try to emulate the behavior of the natives. So, it must mean they are stupid. It is so offensive I can’t tell you. The women of this country have struggled long and hard from when I was young to be respected and to have this kind of behavior in men is disgusting. You see, in their culture, women are apparently “classified” into children, married women, modest young women, mothers’ and whores. So, to them, most of our young women, as well as some older ones, are whores. When I was younger I went to a polka dance; there were some Mexicans there and one of them asked me to dance and throught apparently because I was alone it was okay to try to rub up against me while dancing; I think he thought that I was available for money. So, you can see where cultural differences can cause real problems. Ugh. Funny, there are Mexicans all over the place here, and that never happens to me (or at least not more often than it happens with guys of any given ethnic background) But then I respect people, so maybe they respect me back. How can you even tell they are Mexican, by the way? Numbers posted in other threads indicate that even of Spanish-speakers in the U.S., significant numbers are Central American or from elsewhere in Latin America. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/43 "2006-04-11T13:34:51Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > There are something like 5,000 - 6,000 languages in the world. And I think you meant Papua New Guinea, not New Zealand. Thanks, I do mean new Guinea. I am not a Linguist, but I’ve been reading **Vanishing Voices** by Daniel Nettle and Suzanne Romaine (no clue how credible the book is) and it’s facinating stuff. In any case, even in countries with official languages, that language is rarely what is spoken in the homes. America is nearly unique in it’s idea that a country should (or even can) be uni-lingual. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/44 "2006-04-11T13:56:36Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I just read an interesting statistic today. There are 20 to 30 times more languages in the world than countries. It is nearly statistically impossible for a country to be monolingual. Just be glad we don’t live in New Zealand, which has 1,109 languages. Perhaps New Guinea (the island) is meant. According to Ethnologue, [Papua New Guinea](http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=PG) has 820 living languages, and the western half of the island, i.e., [the provinces of Papua in Indonesia](http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=IDP), has 269 living languages. (New Zealand has three official languages as of this month – English, Maori and [New Zealand Sign Language](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Sign_Language) – so it is not as language-rich as New Guinea). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/45 "2006-04-11T14:11:47Z")
> [@suezeekay](#): > > Okay, I get the passive-agressive thing. But, it’s an interesting remark anyway. I don’t know any white American women who would refer to men at a polka dance as “strange”. I knew hidden somewhere in all those broad generalizations in the guise of the pretense of a cogent defense, was the hint of a Persian ideology; maybe Hispanic. Not certain. The American woman raised in the states doesn’t usually express that kind of fear of men in quite that way. Some fear of her being thought badly of for her choice of men to dance with. You are blaming me for dancing with “strange” men. I was just reading about this ideology in a book about women in Egypt, where women are punished for being raped. Interesting. As I told you in the last thread, I am a white American woman, with maybe a little Native American stirred into the mix somewhere. I know you would like to think I’m a minority whose interest in this is protecting other minorities, but it’s not true. I have seven years worth of posts. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and go through them and see if I ever identified myself as being another race or from another country. It’d be hard to keep up a ruse for seven years. If I’m a minorty, or from another country, _surely_ I must have slipped up and admitted it somewhere. Have fun looking. Secondly, “strange” people are people I do not personally know. I will dance with my husband’s co-workers. I will dance with brothers of friends. I will dance with guys I know from around the neighborhood, but no, I don’t dance with people I don’t know. It’s not a matter of religion or culture, but of simple personal preference that I don’t invite personal contact with strangers. (I’m an athiest Midwesterner.) > [@](#): > > Yeh, I’ve lived all over the world and had a lot of experiences. Pardon me if I have a hard time believing that. People who have lived in different countries and experienced other cultures rarely espouse these kinds of views. > [@](#): > > It’s human to extrapolate because one person can’t have every experience with every person. That’s how people make decisions, based on their personal experience, and the experience of others that they choose to believe. So, it’s really not an argument to disregard someone’s experience. So, what you’re saying is that the Aryan Nation might have valid points. Their claim is that they know through their “personal experience”, and that of their like-minded friends, that the “niggers and the Jews” (and other assorted non-white races) are destroying our country. They claim that they know through “personal experience” that both of those races are immoral, lazy, evil, greedy, selfish and inhuman. But by your standards, we should not condemn this ugly, hate-filled philosophy. Are they, too, entitled to make nasty claims under the guise of “personal experience?” > [@](#): > > How do you know I’m not right? Have you had every experience with every Mexican person? I suppose I could use your argument to ask you to prove your point of view. Get back to me when you have experienced everything. I’m not the one making broad claims about an entire people. The burden of proof is on you, babe. I’m saying they’re innocent until proven guilty. You’re saying that you know they’re all guilty because you’ve met a handful. And, methinks I have had more experience with Mexicans than you have, since yours seem to amount to having a Hispanic relative-by-marriage and random encounters on the street, combined with stories you’ve heard. Have you ever worked with Hispanics? I have, when I lived in Texas. Have you ever gone to Mexico, other than a quick dash across the border to gawk and buy souvineers? Have you ever gone to a Mexican wedding party? Have you ever stayed in a Mexican home, and watched a father roll around on the floor playing with his children while the rest of the family giggled? Have you ever given Mexicans a \*chance \*to show you what a warm, hospitable, charitable and friendly people they are? > [@](#): > > It’s logical to assume that if every group of young Hispanic men a woman walks by stares at their boobs and crotch, that there’s a good chance that most of them will at all places and at all times. Tell you what-- if every other woman reading this thread clims the same exact experience, I will agree that Hispanics are crotch-starers. So far, you have one person (yourself) claiming that this is always true, and one woman who has \*never \*had this experience. (Me.) We will wait until the end of the thread for the final tally. But in the meantime, allow me to propose an alternate theory: you’re overly-sensitive in the presence of Hispanic men because you’re afraid of them. Thus, when any of them glances in your direction, you assume they’re looking at your sexual areas. (And, let’s face it-- you’re a person who makes a LOT of assumptions.) > [@](#): > > And of course we couldn’t function if we didn’t make assumptions e.g. the next time I push this button, an alarm will ring; or I got a rash the last time I ate strawberries, so I will get a rash the next time I eat them. Of course no one has the entire truth of the matter at any time; so we do the best we can. It’s a human process. Yes, but you’re trying to say that human behavior is as automatic and dependable as pushing a button, and that’s simply not so. My husband was once mugged by a black man. The people who stole his car were also black. Ah! Two negative experiences with blacks! A friend of mine was once accosted in my presence by a black beggar, who groped her crotch when she refused to give her money. And lastly, last time I was in a movie theater, a black woman chatted loudly on her cell phone during the film. Four negative experiences! So, through my “personal experience”, am I now entitled to say that ALL blacks are theives, sexually agressive and loud in theaters? You just don’t get it, do you? > [@](#): > > Hum…so you think American men think of millions of women as whores? Some do–unlike you, I don’t paint all members of a group with the same brush. There was a study of college-age young men a few years back in which an alarmingly large number of them reported that they believed they were _entitled_ to sex if they took a woman out and paid for her dinner. > [@](#): > > I really don’t agree with you there. but…if that’s your opinion. Again that hint of something…what is it? That kind of dark feeling for women; guilt. No. Well, it could just be some kind of twist from the norm, but I come down on the side of cultural. No, it’s realizing that the Sexual Revolution did not change overnight the male patriarchal notions of sex which have existed for tens of thousands of years. There is still a stigma attatched to sexually liberated women. Why else do you think that women who sleep with multiple partners are called “sluts” while men who do the same are “studs”? Ask a dozen men how many partners they have had, and then ask them if they’d marry a woman who had had equal sexual experience. Last Friday, I was out of town, so I had a chance to watch some daytime television, something I rarely have the time and inclination to do. I happened upon a Jerry Springer show, and watched a few minutes of it. It was a young woman trying to discover who the father of her baby was. The audience was “shocked” at the potential number of candidates, and I’m sure she faced some derisive comments. But when the potential fathers came out on stage, no one asked them how many women they had slept with in the same time-frame. It’s called a sexual double standard. It still exists, in our amazingly advanced white American culture. It has not vanished any more than racism or prejudice have. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/46 "2006-04-11T14:53:57Z")
[http://www.boston.com/news/local/ar...for\_healthcare/](http://www.boston.com/news/local/ar...for_healthcare/) That’s Medicaid. Not indegent care. Illegal aliens aren’t eligible for it. But its not going to stop indegent care for a segment of the ethnic group that you dislike. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/47 "2006-04-11T16:49:52Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > I do see your point, but the same could happen to a new immigrant from, say, Poland. Learning English is a long process. Agreed. All I’m saying is that people have good reason to be concerned about immigrants who don’t make a real effort to adopt the vernacular – and I’ve certainly encountered a good number of people like that. I would not claim that they are representative of Hispanics though, as I don’t have any good basis for saying so. In other words, I can understand why people are concerned about people who refuse to be integrated into US society – especially in light of the controversial demands for bilingual government forms, etc. I’m not saying that these concerns are entirely justified, but I do understand them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/48 "2006-04-11T17:29:38Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Pardon me if I have a hard time believing that. People who have lived in different countries and experienced other cultures rarely espouse these kinds of views. I’m not sure that I would dismiss her claim that quickly. I have known a number of people who had similar views with similar experiences–whenver the PX was closed. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/49 "2006-04-11T19:37:05Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Agreed. All I’m saying is that people have good reason to be concerned about immigrants who don’t make a real effort to adopt the vernacular – and I’ve certainly encountered a good number of people like that. I would not claim that they are representative of Hispanics though, as I don’t have any good basis for saying so. > > In other words, I can understand why people are concerned about people who refuse to be integrated into US society – especially in light of the controversial demands for bilingual government forms, etc. I’m not saying that these concerns are entirely justified, but I do understand them. And I am saying Spanish is the vernacular, and Mexican culture is US society in many areas. Take the burrito- they don’t really eat those in Mexico and it was invested here. It is both Mexican and American in nature. Imagine that! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/50 "2006-04-11T19:48:04Z")
_Sigh_. Okay, I suppose one could argue that _in a sense_, Spanish is the vernacular within certain small communities. If people seldom venture beyond those communities, and if they’re willing to use interpreters for all of their government paperwork, then perhaps there’s no overriding need to learn English. Somehow though, that does not strike me as a terribly realistic or healthy scenario. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/51 "2006-04-11T22:25:38Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Tell you what-- if every other woman reading this thread clims the same exact experience, I will agree that Hispanics are crotch-starers. So far, you have one person (yourself) claiming that this is always true, and one woman who has \*never \*had this experience. (Me.) We will wait until the end of the thread for the final tally. I’m a white American widwestern raised girl currently living in Southern California. I’ve had a lot of encounters with Hispanic men, particularly Mexicans. A lot of my coworkers have been Mexican, I’ve lived in neighborhoods where a good majority of people were Mexican and I was the only white girl around for blocks, and I’ve enteracted with a lot of Mexicans on the street and while taking public transportation. I have never noticed any of them staring at my crotch or my boobs. The worse I’ve ever caught them doing is saying naughty things about me in Spanish to one another, but I’ve caught white guys doing that too. Yeah, I have had Mexican coworkers that say shit to me, but nothing worse than what my American coworkers have also said. And quite frankly, I prefer the Mexicans, because they love it when I retort with a stinger in Spanish. I won’t deny that there are parts of Mexican culture which I find distasteful and there have been experiences when, before I knew how to deal with Mexican men, I got annoyed with some of my coworkers/employees but overall, I have no problems with Mexicans. In fact, if I have any prejudices towards them, it is that they are so hard working because I know many who have worked 2, 3, 4, jobs and 10-16 hours a day to support their families. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/52 "2006-04-11T22:41:19Z")
I deal with people on a daily basis that speak little to no english. If it wasn’t for translators I’d be hard pressed to do my job. As to if they’re 1st,2nd or whatever generation I don’t know. And yes, there are parts of LA with little to no english signs, etc. Especially in the north part of the san fernando valley. I’ve also noticed a tendancy in that area for the hispanic locals to show blatant hostility to white folks. (Thats why we don’t go there) I strongly believe that you should learn the common language of a country that you plan on living in, especially for an extended period of time. Not just for spanish speakers coming to the US, but for anyone planning to relocate anywhere. It just makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/53 "2006-04-11T22:44:24Z")
**suezeekay** , you are invited [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7288694#post7288694) ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/54 "2006-04-12T01:57:57Z")
> [@suezeekay](#): > > I grew up in California and unless these people were living in caves, it is not true that there were large numbers of minorities speaking Spanish. I never heard Spanish spoken except in the orchards. I never saw a Spanish-language ATM or loan documents, voting instructions, ad infinitum. And it was not until illegal Mexican immigrants who ran the border started building up in the U.S. and became a problem in the schools that the teachers actually had to learn how to teach English to Mexican children and Spanish to American children so they could communicate. My mother taught in the Vallejo schools and I remember her going to Spanish classes starting around 1975. And the west coast did have a population before the Mexicans migrated up there. I don’t understand why this issue about Mexico being in line just before the U.S. took it as their territory. This has happened as long as there have been humanoids; land has gone back and forth throughout history. The last ones to have it before the next ones took it over don’t have any better claim than the people that lived there before them. Constantinople was the largest, most modern city in the ancient world, and it was taken over and over, back and forth by Christian and Muslims. If there were any Aztecs left they might still be trying to claim their land that was taken from them by Spain. This is a non-issue. 1. In “On the Road” by Jack Kerouac (1957) there are a large number of latinos in southern California working as migrant farm workers. 2. There are Aztecs left. I personally know someone who is Aztec. He is from near Mexico City and his mother speaks [Nahuatl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl) . He only speaks Spanish and English, though. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/55 "2006-04-12T02:21:06Z")
> [@suezeekay](#): > > Now Fairfield is basically a Mexican town. With [19% (warning:PDF)](http://www.ci.fairfield.ca.us/files/demopage_nov2005.pdf) of the population being Hispanic, it qualifies as being “basically a Mexican town”, not to mention that that’s Hispanics in general, not just those from Mexico. Hell, the national percentage is over 12%, and if it ever reaches 19%, I certainly won’t think of America as “basically” a Mexican country. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/56 "2006-04-12T02:22:12Z")
And feel free to put a question mark in place of that first period, as it’s certainly not representative of my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/57 "2006-04-12T22:41:05Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > …don’t make a real effort to adopt the vernacular – and I’ve certainly encountered a good number of people like that. I, for one, have been studying “the vernacular” for years. I hope you’ll accept me when I finally get it right. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/58 "2006-04-13T02:16:45Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I, for one, have been studying “the vernacular” for years. I hope you’ll accept me when I finally get it right. Did I ever accuse you of NOT studying the vernacular. I’m pretty sure that I did not. If I’m mistaken in that regard, I hope you’ll point out the text in question. And if I did not, then I hope that you’ll drop this ridiculous argument. NOBODY here has accused you of not studying the vernacular. NOBODY has said that Hispanics NEVER make that effort. Rather, people are saying that if you choose to live in this country for any extended period, then you SHOULD learn the language. It’s just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/59 "2006-04-13T13:12:51Z")
> [@suezeekay](#): > > . . . on a smaller level, the fact that Mexicans stare at your boobs and crotch when you walk by really bothers me and I think that someone would have to be stupid not to at least try to emulate the behavior of the natives. Where do you live, where **white** guys don’t stare at your crotch or boobs?! It can’t be America! ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066/60 "2006-04-18T17:43:19Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Did I ever accuse you of NOT studying the vernacular. I’m pretty sure that I did not. If I’m mistaken in that regard, I hope you’ll point out the text in question. > > And if I did not, then I hope that you’ll drop this ridiculous argument. NOBODY here has accused you of not studying the vernacular. NOBODY has said that Hispanics NEVER make that effort. Rather, people are saying that if you choose to live in this country for any extended period, then you SHOULD learn the language. It’s just that simple. Take it easy, **J**. I was just making a glib (and admittedly ill-advised remark), something to the effect that I might want to improve even my own native langage. It was nothing personal, and I apologize. I agree with your point completely. And I haven’t met a single spanish speaker who wouldn’t love to speak English well (including the vernacular). Some just don’t have much time to study it, or are past the age (about 13) where the “language organ” (as I believe Chomsky called it) is working too well. That’s why the INS (or whatever they call it now) waves the English requirement for those over 65 to become citizens, too. That being said, I’m amazed at all the people who come here and do a pretty good job of learning the language, considering that they come here from poor, uneducated backgrounds, which has been shown to make a big difference in difficulty in second language acquisition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-latinos-in-the-u-s-dont-assimilate-so-what/352066.md?page=2)