# If Manhattan's power & transportation structure were obliterated, how long before starvation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 30, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122 "2009-09-30T17:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/1 "2009-09-30T17:04:58Z")
Say there was an unprecedented catastrophe in New York County. The bridges are destroyed, the tunnels blocked, the airports devastated; the power structure is so damaged that it will take weeks, if not months, of effort to restore electricity to the area, even the Army drops everything and runs to the rescue. How long would it be before there was massive starvation? No, I’m not planning anything villainous. We all agree that joke is tired, right? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/2 "2009-09-30T17:35:42Z")
The rivers surrounding Manhattan are not that wide, and the island isn’t _that_ big. In certain places, it would be child’s play to reconnect with the Bronx and re-allow overland shipping. It would take awhile. Manhattan has less than 1.7 million permanent residents living in approximately 23 square miles of space. The population increases to about 3 million during the work day. It is less than 2.5 miles wide, and a little over 13 miles long, so relief distribution would be simple. I would worry much, much more about violent looting and anarchy long before food and water became a real issue. Also, there are no airports in New York County, though there are heliports. Now, if the question is more of a hypothetical along the lines of _Manhattan is surrounded by a force field and no one can get in or out_, then the food stores here would not last very long at all, and would be subject to hoarding and looting. I don’t believe there is a natural source of fresh water, so dehydration would be a bigger problem than starvation (rat jerky would become very popular). Most likely the vast majority of occupants would succumb before available land could be converted to producing crops. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/3 "2009-09-30T17:47:56Z")
You could always airlift food and supplies in. Not exactly the luxury lifestyle New Yorkers are used to, but no starvation either. The [Berlin airlift](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Blockade) is an example of what you can do if you’re really motivated to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/4 "2009-09-30T17:48:05Z")
With no electric I’d think that food poisoning would get most people before starvation would. Yech, what a horrible thought! ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/5 "2009-09-30T17:49:24Z")
Starve? In a burg full of poodle-sized rats and colonies of pigeons? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/6 "2009-09-30T17:52:27Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Starve? In a burg full of poodle-sized rats and colonies of pigeons? … and 8MM+ people? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/7 "2009-09-30T18:03:29Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Now, if the question is more of a hypothetical along the lines of _Manhattan is surrounded by a force field and no one can get in or out_ Yeah, but this ain’t IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/8 "2009-09-30T18:06:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Say there was an unprecedented catastrophe in New York County. The bridges are destroyed, the tunnels blocked, the airports devastated; the power structure is so damaged that it will take weeks, if not months, of effort to restore electricity to the area, even the Army drops everything and runs to the rescue. How long would it be before there was massive starvation? I would think that the ferries to Weehawken, Hoboken, Edgewater, Jersey City, Belford, Atlantic Highlands, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Yonkers, Yankee Stadium, Liberty Island and Governers Island would be operating around the clock. It also wouldn’t be impossible for a healthy person to swim to New Jersey. Or paddle a canoe or raft. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/9 "2009-09-30T18:09:23Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I would think that the ferries to Weehawken, Hoboken, Edgewater, Jersey City, Belford, Atlantic Highlands, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Yonkers, Yankee Stadium, Liberty Island and Governers Island would be operating around the clock. > > It also wouldn’t be impossible for a healthy person to swim to New Jersey. Or paddle a canoe or raft. Yeah, you can easily get out of New York. If it came down to it, I’d just swim or even cut down a tree in the park and make a raft to take my family out on. There is a canoe club within walking distance of my house that very few people are aware of. Stealing a kayak or two is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/10 "2009-09-30T18:09:45Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > … and 8MM+ people? See above. Wikipedia was the source that I used. It’s 3 MM people at the height of the workday. The question specifically says “Manhattan” and “New York County”, not “New York City”. **dracoi** , again, let me point out that there is no place in Manhattan to land a plane, and even the heliports are small. Combat engineers, however, could reconnect the Bronx to Manhattan in hours. **Skald** , my answer to the hypothetical was not IMHO. Definitely dehydration before starvation. As **SoulFrost** points out, there are plentiful meat sources for awhile. Assuming that our water, which is pumped in from upstate, is also cut off, there is no source of fresh water. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/11 "2009-09-30T18:14:13Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > See above. Wikipedia was the source that I used. It’s 3 MM people at the height of the workday. The question specifically says “Manhattan” and “New York County”, not “New York City”. Which was, of course, on purpose. I know that Manhattan does not equal New York City, though I had inexplicably forgotten the dearth of airports. I blame the Welsh. > [@](#): > > **Skald** , my answer to the hypothetical was not IMHO. I mentioned the other forum because I have started many silly threads therein involving such impossibilities as force shields cutting off all sovereign nations from one another, or all the world’s porn interfering, or zombie apocalypses. Apocalypsi. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/12 "2009-09-30T18:24:07Z")
Assuming total cut off - no air lifts (with air drops, no starvation) and no boats… Starvation would take about a month. Most people have about that much food on hand at any given time. But allowing for averages, about a month. There may be stubborn or poorly planning people that starve in a matter of days. (Some people live on fast food, etc…) Eventually people would turn to long-pig and the food supply would last, though the population would dwindle until equlibrium occurred and susbsistance farming resumed. The reality is that the island would be evacuated in a matter of days, so little to no starvation would occur. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/13 "2009-09-30T18:41:46Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Assuming that our water, which is pumped in from upstate, is also cut off, there is no source of fresh water. Rain. Though I’m not sure how safe NY rainwater is to drink, I’m sure it could be filtered. Also, I imagine that some places have huge (though non-replenishing) amounts of water stored–fire departments, factories, [these guys](http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Manhattan%22+%22water+supplier%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=%22water+supplier%22&hnear=%22Manhattan%22&view=text&ei=DabDSrbrF4fvlAfiyL3IBQ&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQtQMwAA). We will survive, damnit! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/14 "2009-09-30T18:53:40Z")
What about that huge kitchen that supplies all the Chinese restaurants? Isn’t that under Central Park? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/15 "2009-09-30T18:58:10Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Starvation would take about a month. Most people have about that much food on hand at any given time. But allowing for averages, about a month. There may be stubborn or poorly planning people that starve in a matter of days. Huh? A month’s worth of food? Even for single people, that’s a pretty large amount of food, let alone for a family. Where are people keeping all this food? I can’t imagine where I’d put a month’s worth of food for myself, or for my wife and myself, and we have a nicer apartment than most in New York. Really, I t hink this is a serious overestimate of what people have on hand in this city. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/16 "2009-09-30T19:01:47Z")
Julius Caesar only required 40,000 men and 10 days to [bridge the Rhine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar%27s_Rhine_bridges) in 55 BC. I’m sure we could come up with something. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/17 "2009-09-30T19:06:59Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Also, there are no airports in New York County, though there are heliports. How long is the Great Lawn in Central Park? From pictures it looks like you could easily land a small airplane in it if you had to. If you could get a Cessna Caravan (designed as a small cargo plane) in and out of there you’d be able to bring supplies in and people out via air if necessary, even if you had to use smaller planes some emergency supplies could be shipped in. Larger planes could air drop supplies into that area, though you’d probably want to clear people out before the drop for safety reasons. But really, ferries would be more efficient in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Fastidiots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fastidiots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fastidiots)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/18 "2009-09-30T19:30:32Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > You could always airlift food and supplies in. Not exactly the luxury lifestyle New Yorkers are used to, but no starvation either. > > The [Berlin airlift](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Blockade) is an example of what you can do if you’re really motivated to pull it off. Just wanted to add that this is a brilliant wikiread. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/19 "2009-09-30T19:54:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > How long is the Great Lawn in Central Park? The Great Lawn runs from 79th to 86th Streets, so figure 7 blocks, or 7/20th of a mile (about 616 yards). > [@SoulFrost](#): > > Rain. I thought about that and didn’t figure it would matter. But NYC averages almost 50" of rain and over 22" of snow annually. Barring a drought, this would extend the life of available water. Collection would be a problem though. Unlike homes in tropical areas, NYC housing isn’t designed to maximize rainfall collection. There would still be dehydration deaths, but maybe not as widespread as I had envisioned. Water at firehouses would be expended very fast, putting out fires. My guess is that they would be gone before available water supplies were exhausted. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/20 "2009-09-30T19:56:33Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Huh? A month’s worth of food? Even for single people, that’s a pretty large amount of food, let alone for a family. Where are people keeping all this food? I can’t imagine where I’d put a month’s worth of food for myself, or for my wife and myself, and we have a nicer apartment than most in New York. Really, I t hink this is a serious overestimate of what people have on hand in this city. You’re probably right. I forgot that Manhatten is mostly people without kids, and mostly people that live off of restaurant food or bodega shopping. Unlike the suburbanite, you don’t likely own a deep-freeze. You’re doomed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122.md?page=2)