# If Manhattan's power & transportation structure were obliterated, how long before starvation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 30, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122 "2009-09-30T17:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/41 "2009-10-01T11:32:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > How long is the Great Lawn in Central Park? From pictures it looks like you could easily land a small airplane in it if you had to. If you could get a Cessna Caravan (designed as a small cargo plane) in and out of there you’d be able to bring supplies in and people out via air if necessary, even if you had to use smaller planes some emergency supplies could be shipped in. Larger planes could air drop supplies into that area, though you’d probably want to clear people out before the drop for safety reasons. > > But really, ferries would be more efficient in many ways. Sikorsky makes a nice line of heavy lift helicopters. When you can lift supplies in by the cargotainer it makes it a bit easier to deal with, establish a number of military runand guarded supply depots/distro centers and you are good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/42 "2009-10-01T12:28:13Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > JATO/RATO? Is it plausible to strap jets or rockets onto a Caravan and blast out without needing that 700 feet? Honestly, I don’t know. Just don’t have enough knowledge of that technology to make a statement about it. However, that take off distance is assuming normal take off weight, that is, a full airplane. The published take off distance for an airplane usually has certain default assumptions, but there is room for improvement on that figure if you know how to go about it. If you used good short/rough field technique and an airplane empty of everything but a pilot and a reasonable minimum of fuel you might well be able to shave that 700 feet off the take off distance, particularly if you could climb out on a path that didn’t encounter any obstacle higher than a small bush for another half mile or so. If it was mid winter with cold, dense air this would be even more likely. I don’t know for sure, though, not being a Caravan pilot. The advantage of a Caravan is that it was designed to be a small cargo plane and carries a large payload in comparison to its weight and size, and can also be equipped with an underbelly cargo pod for additional capacity. (For a short take off you’d probably leave the pod behind on the ground) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/43 "2009-10-01T13:43:12Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > One month of food strikes me as impossibly optimistic. Grocery stores typically get resupplied every day, right? > > There would be some people with food to last four weeks, to be sure, but I think most people would have less (particularly families with kids). There will be plenty of people who have almost none, and those would likely be disproportionately young single men – the demographic most likely to cause trouble. > > The bodegas would get trashed in the first few days. I predict food riots within a week. I think you overestimate the food stores of single women, which are more plentiful in NY then single men. But I agree about bodegas, groceries and green markets getting trashed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/44 "2009-10-01T13:47:42Z")
The stores would be empty within 48 hours. After that, the riots start. Grocery stores in the US operate (like any other big business) on the “Just in time” principle. If the trucks stop hauling food, the shelves go empty real quick. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/45 "2009-10-01T13:50:15Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Grocery stores typically get resupplied every day, right? IME, there will be some kind of delivery every day, but any individual item will be replenished more like every two-three days (produce) to a week (dry goods with medium turnover) or longer for low-turnover dry goods. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/46 "2009-10-01T14:07:02Z")
We know what the outcome will be, because this [actually happened once before](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man's_Land_(comics)). Recovery time was extremely quick, on the order of about a year. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/47 "2009-10-01T16:47:59Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > If they cleared the traffic on FDR drive from 34th to 85th they sure could, or 12th Ave turning into the Henry Hudson parkway. [C-17 needs 3,000 feet to land on dry pavement fully-loaded](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-17_Globemaster_III). Not sure about the lateral space necessary-- might be a tight squeeze, but planes have landed in tighter spots. Also, pallet drops (think “touch-and-go’s”) require a lot less space, and can be just as effective in a crisis. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/48 "2009-10-01T20:24:47Z")
I have easily two months worth of food, in the fridge, pantry and a small chest freezer. But if the electricity goes out for six hours or so, I’m down to about three days worth in comfort mode, ten days in survival mode. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/49 "2009-10-01T20:52:40Z")
Remember, a freezer, especially a chest freezer, doesn’t instantly warm up when the power goes out. You might even be able to safely eat out of your freezer for that that first three days, and then go longer with your pantry foods. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/50 "2009-10-01T20:53:01Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I have easily two months worth of food, in the fridge, pantry and a small chest freezer. But if the electricity goes out for six hours or so, I’m down to about three days worth in comfort mode, ten days in survival mode. A freezer and a fridge will stay cold for a lot longer than 6 hours. A while back, I lost power for 14 hours. The fridge was no longer properly cold, but still quite a bit colder than room temperature. The freezer was still frozen, but things like ice cubes were starting to melt around the edges. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/51 "2009-10-01T22:19:28Z")
Regarding water, there’s this huge [reservoir](http://www.centralpark.com/pages/attractions/reservoir.html) right in the middle. > [@](#): > > The 106-acre water body is 40 feet deep and holds over a billion gallons of water. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/52 "2009-10-02T10:29:28Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Regarding water, there’s this huge [reservoir](http://www.centralpark.com/pages/attractions/reservoir.html) right in the middle. Good point. Whoever seizes the reservoir will rule the island! There was a sci-fi short story where the protagonist and his friends were spending the day relaxing in an officially anarchic park where everything is permitted except violence, and parkgoers are protected by floating cop-robot units. Someone figures out how to disable the cop-robots (and seal the park exits in the process), and the community dissolves into factions as real anarchy arrives. Several young men immediately seize the park’s only fountain and start controlling who gets to drink. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122/53 "2009-10-02T18:09:01Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > One month of food strikes me as impossibly optimistic. Grocery stores typically get resupplied every day, right? > > There would be some people with food to last four weeks, to be sure, but I think most people would have less (particularly families with kids). There will be plenty of people who have almost none, and those would likely be disproportionately young single men – the demographic most likely to cause trouble. > > The bodegas would get trashed in the first few days. I predict food riots within a week. NY bachelor here. I do not have even one day’s food in my apartment, and I lived for 4 years without a refrigerator (mine broke, and I never saw the point of replacing it). I either eat out or pick up that night’s food on the way home from work. During the blackout some years back, I let a few friends stay with me who were unable to get out of the city. We bought our food supplies from a corner deli whose inventory was nearly wiped out in a matter of hours by like-minded individuals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-manhattans-power-transportation-structure-were-obliterated-how-long-before-starvation/512122.md?page=2)