# If MCU gets X-Men and Fantastic Four.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 7, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765 "2017-12-07T05:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/41 "2017-12-10T21:15:02Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Well, sadly, Spidey seems to have fallen off. I know the comic collection I had that said this but was probably from late 70s, early 80s, and I don’t have it anymore. That put Spidey as 3rd or at least top ten in the Marvel comic universe at that point. > > In the lists I find, they put spider in mid tier, behind many I disagree with. > > The marvel wiki puts his strength at a 4 (on 7 scale) with Captain America at a 3 and Hulk and Thor at 7. Not sure that’s good enough of a scale to really differentiate. > > I disagree that Beast is stronger. That doesn’t get us anywhere! But I disagree. > > I think part of the issue with the Marvel Cinematic Universe is that we are soon going to be dealing with large scale bad guys, who need similar scaled good guys. And I doubt we will see Spidey in that mix. > > Sigh. > > Good conversation and I liked the research, even if it didn’t agree with me. In over 4 decades of reading comics. Spider-Man has always had super-human strength but was never near the top of the Marvel pile. Even in the earliest days, Thing, Thor, and Hulk\* were stronger. The only time he may have been top 10, distantly behind those three, would have been back in 1962, when those were pretty much the only strong characters (plus whatever villains were in the super-strength mix). Less than a year later, Iron Man would be added, and if memory serves, they were about equally strong at first. Also, especially given the relative experience in the film, Captain America would have beaten Spider-Man. Given time, so would Winter Soldier and Black Panther, especially once they stopped underestimating him. Spider-Man would put up a good fight, but beginner Spider-Man isn’t in their class. I do think he would beat Black Widow and Hawkeye separately, but neither easily. \*Forgot the Sub-Mariner, who was re-introduced into current Marvel continuity in 1962 though he dates back to the late '30s, pushing Spider-Man further down the list. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/42 "2017-12-10T21:17:57Z")
Yeah Tony is a brilliant engineer not a Scientist. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/43 "2017-12-10T21:44:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, he’s a genius, sure, but he’s not really a \*portals \*genius. I mean, he didn’t invent magic portals - he learned how to do it at a school, as part of his first year studies, with a large number of other students, almost all of whom were better at it than he was. Of course, that kind of diminishes the need for a “portals genius” when Intro to Portals is being taught at the Nepalese community college. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/44 "2017-12-11T00:50:24Z")
I think that **Little Nemo** ’s point was about the scope of Richards’ genius, not about portals or time machines specifically. Stark is best known for his armor suits, but he can also invent other nifty things. And Richards might be best known for his portals, but he can also invent other nifty things. The difference is that all of Stark’s inventions are at about the same tech level as his armor, while Richards’ inventions are at a much higher tech level. You’d never see Stark coming up with, say, an Ultimate Nullifier (something which the MCU does not currently have, and which they might soon find very useful). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/45 "2017-12-11T02:06:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that **Little Nemo** ’s point was about the scope of Richards’ genius, not about portals or time machines specifically. Stark is best known for his armor suits, but he can also invent other nifty things. And Richards might be best known for his portals, but he can also invent other nifty things. The difference is that all of Stark’s inventions are at about the same tech level as his armor, while Richards’ inventions are at a much higher tech level. You’d never see Stark coming up with, say, an Ultimate Nullifier (something which the MCU does not currently have, and which they might soon find very useful). IIRC, _Richards_ didn’t come up with the Ultimate Nullifier; Galactus already had it back at his place, and Uatu – doing his passive-aggressive I’m Not Gonna Intervene, Nope, That Is Not Technically What I Am Doing schtick – guided Johnny Storm to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/46 "2017-12-11T02:45:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, _Richards_ didn’t come up with the Ultimate Nullifier; Galactus already had it back at his place, and Uatu – doing his passive-aggressive I’m Not Gonna Intervene, Nope, That Is Not Technically What I Am Doing schtick – guided Johnny Storm to it. Anyone can make an Ultimate Nullifier these days: > **[Ultimate Nullifier - 3d Printed](http://customtecture.blogspot.com/2015/05/ultimate-nullifier-3d-printed.html)** > > I wanted my own weapon of mass annihilation so I set about modeling and 3d printing my own Ultimate Nullifier.   Here are some reference ... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/47 "2017-12-11T03:25:20Z")
Reed Richards. The guy who could look at the control panel of an alien spaceship and run the thing. (Wasn’t it great to live before menus?) His schtick is that he’s smarter than anybody else in the Marvel Universe. Doom is nearly on his level. Hank Pym, Bruce Banner, T’Challa, and the Beast were right behind. Professor X had the most powerful brain on the planet, with Magneto playing Doom in a close second. How that worked for genius was carefully never mentioned. Of course, that was back when Stan Lee wrote them all. No comic has been canon since 1970. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/48 "2017-12-11T05:13:05Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > And what about the Skrulls? Marvel has always maligned their glories and triumphs, printing numerous hate tracts against them full of lies and slander. The Skrulls are a peace-loving race destined to rule the multiverse. Yet, they too have been written out of the movies. How many more indignities must they endure? “Peace-loving”? Really? I don’t trust a Skrull who talks like a Shi’ar. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/49 "2017-12-11T13:43:51Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > In over 4 decades of reading comics. Spider-Man has always had super-human strength but was never near the top of the Marvel pile. Even in the earliest days, Thing, Thor, and Hulk\* were stronger. The only time he may have been top 10, distantly behind those three, would have been back in 1962, when those were pretty much the only strong characters (plus whatever villains were in the super-strength mix). Less than a year later, Iron Man would be added, and if memory serves, they were about equally strong at first. > > Also, especially given the relative experience in the film, Captain America would have beaten Spider-Man. Given time, so would Winter Soldier and Black Panther, especially once they stopped underestimating him. Spider-Man would put up a good fight, but beginner Spider-Man isn’t in their class. I do think he would beat Black Widow and Hawkeye separately, but neither easily. > > \*Forgot the Sub-Mariner, who was re-introduced into current Marvel continuity in 1962 though he dates back to the late '30s, pushing Spider-Man further down the list. Yeah, I have been convinced and seen my biases. Just wanted Spidey in there for strength and genius. Darn it. And I do agree that experience does count, which is why he did well in Civil War but didn’t definitely win any fight he had. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/50 "2017-12-11T18:44:06Z")
Few notes: 1. NONE ARE MIGHTIER THAN DOOM!!! Seriously. Beat The Beyonder…and then beat the infinitely more powerful Beyonders. (With help from Strange and Molecule Man) 2. Stark is a futurist. Which wouldn’t translate to movies, but Reed is way too up his own butt to be a futurist. 3. Man eff this Spidey is weak shit! No one is faster! No one!! Dude dodges lasers. Also…he’s been fighting villains foreverrrrrrrr. I think a lot of people forget that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/51 "2017-12-11T19:27:05Z")
Spidey is fast in the sense that he’s got great reflexes, but he’s no speedster. And he hasn’t been fighting villains forever in the cinematic universe: He’s still a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/52 "2017-12-11T20:20:08Z")
Also, lasers are super easy to dodge in comic books. Pretty much everyone can dodge a laser. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/53 "2017-12-11T21:14:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Spidey is fast in the sense that he’s got great reflexes, but he’s no speedster. And he hasn’t been fighting villains forever in the cinematic universe: He’s still a teenager. He’s fast in the sense he has Spidey Sense. It’s like Force microsecond precog. That’s how he dodges the lasers not because of just reflexes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/54 "2017-12-11T23:41:31Z")
Precisely how Spidey Sense works varies greatly from one work to another. In some, it’s just really fast reflexes, or (possibly) even slightly-precognitive reflexes. In others, though, it just gives him a vague sense when “something’s wrong”. In any event, though, even in the versions where his reflexes aren’t precognitive, they’re still much better than those of a normal human. And you don’t actually need superhuman reflexes to dodge lasers, either: You just need to move erratically enough that the guy with the laser can’t get a bead on you. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/55 "2017-12-14T00:43:42Z")
Well, [looks like we’re going to find out](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/12/13/if-disney-buys-fox-assets-your-tv-movie-and-sports-watching-could-change/940970001/): > [@](#): > > Playing soon: A deal between two U.S. entertainment icons that could change what sports you watch at home and even what superheroes battle it out on the big screen. > > Walt Disney Co. (DIS) is expected to be the acquirer of 21st Century Fox (FOX) assets put up for sale by Fox’s Murdoch family as it streamlines Fox’s holdings and focuses on the news business. > > The asset sale, which may be worth up to $60 billion in a deal CNBC says could come Thursday, would shift some Fox television- and movie-making studios to the acquirer as well as rights to some characters from the Marvel comic book universe that Fox now holds… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765/56 "2017-12-14T13:41:55Z")
Deal is announced: [It's Official: The X-Men and Fantastic Four Are Coming Back to Marvel Thanks to a Huge Deal Between Fox and Disney](https://io9.gizmodo.com/its-official-the-x-men-and-fantastic-four-are-coming-b-1821139320) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-mcu-gets-x-men-and-fantastic-four/803765.md?page=2)