# If multiple personality disorder doesn't exist, what they got? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2001, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433 "2001-01-04T18:29:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/21 "2001-01-05T17:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > \*\*Yes, but bipolar or depression is an affective disorder. That’s not the case here. The person is neither depressed or manic. I guess the only other diagnosis would be: “psychosis, not otherwise differentiated,” or some such verbiage. \*\* Having worked with both as a Psych tech, I can tell you that a severe bipolar who is on his manic phase can be pretty hard to tell from a Schizophrenic. THey are pretty out of touch with reality, see things that arent there ect. Some one who has been through a severe phsyc trauma, like most people with MPD have, can create an alternate reality for themselves, or think that they are re-experianceing the trauma etc(PTSD). Also can have similar effects. Brain tumors can cause similar problems, there are a host of organic and non organic problems that could cover delusional behavior. not just Schizophrenia. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/22 "2001-01-05T17:27:51Z")
I was under the impression that MPD is extremely rare, and that different personalities are usually the result of extreme abuse as a young child-it is a protective mechanism. Anyone ever READ _Sybil_? WAs that true or not? Also, for the last time, schizophrenia is NOT the same as MPD! ---
**Author:** ![BornDodgy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@BornDodgy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BornDodgy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/23 "2001-01-05T17:32:15Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by bdgr \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Delusions can be cause by a large number of things, not just schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is specific organic disorder. Someone who is severly bipolor can be delusional, as well as people suffering from all sorts of psychological trauma(which can be a temporary condition…Schizophrenia is permenant). There is a bunch more, but I don’t have a dsm handy right now. \*\* \ … I even got dilusional while all I was ever diagnosed with was clinical depression and panic attacks… so if I wasnt one in a million it is more common than you might think…\ If borderline is really organic - does it run in families? dodgy ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/24 "2001-01-05T18:22:26Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by BornDodgy \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Delusions can be cause by a large number of things, not just schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is specific organic disorder. Someone who is severly bipolor can be delusional, as well as people suffering from all sorts of psychological trauma(which can be a temporary condition…Schizophrenia is permenant). There is a bunch more, but I don’t have a dsm handy right now. \*\* > > \ > … I even got dilusional while all I was ever diagnosed with was clinical depression and panic attacks… so if I wasnt one in a million it is more common than you might think…\ > > If borderline is really organic - does it run in families? > dodgy \*\* I don’t think borderline is organic. It could run in families in the since that if you are raised by a borderline then the enviroment could be such that you stand a good chance of becoming borderline. From what I have seen and been told by the shrinks I worked with(I am not a shrink myself, so I am definately not an expert on the subject), is that it seems to be caused when the child recieves little or no positive attention when they are very young(first four or five years). such as a child born into a marriage that is on the rocks, the parents are fighting all the time, and dont pay any attention to the kid unless they do something wrong. Without the interaction, the child doesnt devolp much of a self image, and learn the way to get attention they need is to do something that others frown upon. The theroy is that most of your personality is formed in the first 4 or 5 years of life, and this is the critical time. The It seems to happen more in females than males, borderlines I have delt with mostly came from such a situation. I dont know why. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/25 "2001-01-09T00:14:12Z")
SuaSponte said: > [@](#): > > If a psychiatrist’s meddling can inadvertantly cause MPD in a patient, I gotta think something was major-league wrong with that patient in the first place. David B.'s links talks about “extreme suggestibility”. I posit that suggestibility so extreme as to allow the creation of a completely delusional life-story and mindset is, again in pure psychospeak, not a good thing. Maybe, maybe not. Many of these therapists _made_ their patients more suggestible, in a variety of ways. Some used drugs (like sodium pentathol) or hypnosis. Others had them read material about MPD and the like, and attend group therapy in which everybody else had multiples. Almost anybody can become suggestible, given enough work. Guinastasia asked: > [@](#): > > Anyone ever READ Sybil? WAs that true or not? Haven’t read it, but as to whether it was true or not, there are definitely some doubts. Well, not doubts as to whether it happened, but how. A couple years ago, another psychiatrist (or psychologist) reviewed all the therapy tapes and found that there was an awful lot of therapist leading and suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/26 "2001-01-09T02:00:04Z")
Most psychiatrists I know say they didn’t believe in DID until they saw a patient with it. Personally, I never have. Kaplan and Sadock in _Synopsis of Psychiatry_ list the differential diagnosis as: “includes dissociative amnesia and dissociative fugue, which lack the shifts in identity and awareness of the original identity as DID. Psychotic disorders, notably schizophrenia, may be confused if the person is delusional and believe that they have separate identities or report hearing other personalities’ voices. The symptoms of rapid cycling bipolar disorders can also be similar to DID (i.e. the same thing as MPD). Borderline personality disorder may coexist with DID. Malingering remains a serious diagnostic problem. Complex partial epilepsy is the neurological disorder most likely to imitiate DID”… Am not in a position to judge here. I would not be surprise if psychosis and malingering accounted for most of the cases. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/27 "2001-01-09T17:33:56Z")
Thanks for all the responses, everybody – I’m starting to see the outlines of the debate in psychiatric circles. Since we’re on the subject, anyone know anything about alleged physical changes people suffering from DID (organic or therapist-induced :D) undergo? I’ve read about people where alters don’t need asthma medication or glasses, etc. I can see an alter needing glasses for example. It’s easy to delude oneself into thinking one has a physical condition. I’m frankly amazed, however, that an alter, for example **doesn’t** need glasses. I can’t figure out the processes involved. Answers from skeptics and believers accepted. 😉 Sua ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/28 "2001-01-09T21:03:38Z")
Sua, I’m a bit dubious about claims of significant physical and/or medical changes between alters. I don’t have data to back my skepticism, though, so I’ll leave it alone. I suspect people could delude themselves into thinking they don’t need glasses, and mental states do have some influence on the occurrence of asthma attacks; I can see where such effects could be behind such reports. I can’t imagine any physical process that would actually change a medical condition in such a fashion. Other people have covered most of what I would normally say about MPD/DID; I’m just posting to clarify the connection between OCRT’s usual material and the MPD debate, since it seems to bother you a bit. The link’s somewhat tenuous, so please bear with me. One of the common claims is that MPD is the result of severe abuse, sometimes claimed to be ritual in nature. There’s a certain overlap among psychologists between MPD partisans and recovered memory therapists (in approach, at least). Some MPD partisans attribute the abuse they believe causes certain cases of MPD to cult activity. That ties into the OCRT’s essays on Satanic Ritual Abuse. Essentialy, their MPD/DID material is a tangent from their SRA articles. ---
**Author:** ![hedra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@hedra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hedra)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/29 "2001-01-09T21:11:31Z")
The DID person in my family (not naming names) didn’t need glasses in one alter, though the main alter had been wearing them for years. Once she integrated, she didn’t need glasses, either, or at least not for several more years. She still doesn’t need them as much as she did back then, and it’s been a few decades. Need for glasses is physiological, but can be related to musculature. How one alter communicates to the eye that it _shouldn’t_ use the muscles to focus properly, and the other one says it should, who knows? But there is a lot more to that mind-body connection than meets the eye (so to speak). Asthma, likewise. Sensitivities (commonly mistaken for allergies, and which often have allergy-like reactions) are very easily affected by the mind-body thing. Asthma can be triggered by sensitivities. Asthma can also be triggered by adrenaline (as with me - I have cold-shock asthma, which is induced by changes in temperature, which actually just releases a jolt of adrenaline)… adrenaline is also very sensitive to mind-body stuff. Certainly some forms of asthma would be variable based on the ‘mind’ behind the reaction. This person was also taller in one alter than the other, but again, posture can do a lot. And this person does not claim that such changes were ‘real’ physiological expressions of a different ‘self’ so much as she notes the power of the deeply-beleived **expectation** of physiological events/aspects to affect those same aspects. Just more proof that the mind is a powerful thing. [hijack] Any of you psych people know about code-switching? Anyone want to comment on whether DID is potentially a dysfunctional extension of what is a normal human function? **Code-switching:** Using specific language, subject, accent, content, word choice, inflection, style, and other ‘codes,’ based on that individual’s understanding of their role and status within a group and/or location. For example, not using your back-woods accent at work, or not talking about diaper-changes with non-parents. It extends to behaviors (such as not belching in committee meetings), and to what parts of your personality are expressed (not losing your temper and yelling around the children, but being willing to do so once they are in bed). Identity is a critical factor in code-switching - Your identity as a student, employee, adult or child (as when dealing with your own parents), etc., all feed into your behavior choices. This is a normal pattern, and is highly functional. Not being able to code-switch leads to problems in social function. At best (if you don’t code-switch well) you might seem to have an attitude, at worst, you appear to be unable to relate to others or make appropriate behavior choices. Dysfunctionally extreme code-switching might be the end that DID lives in? Just pondering the link… ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/30 "2001-01-10T00:49:15Z")
Incidentally, since we’re discussing MPD in general, here are some links to articles I wrote about the prosecution of Dr. Bennett Braun by the Illinois Dept. of Professional Regulation. Braun was one of the bigshots in MPD circles. [Illinois Tackles Repressed Memory Doctor](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v06/n08/braun.html) [Update: Bennett Braun Case (November 1998)](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v06/n09/bennett-braun.html) [Update: Bennett Braun Case (December 1998)](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v06/n10/bennett-braun.html) [Update: Bennett Braun Case (February 1999)](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v07/n02/bennett-braun.html) [Braun Update](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v07/n06/braun-update.html) [Update: Bennett Braun Case – Poznanski Settles; Agrees to Testify Against Braun](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v07/n07/bennett-braun.html) [Bennett Braun Case Settled](http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v07/n11/bennett-braun.html) ---
**Author:** ![RawkStah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@RawkStah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RawkStah)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/31 "2001-01-11T21:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BornDodgy \* > \ > … I even got dilusional while all I was ever diagnosed with was clinical depression and panic attacks… so if I wasnt one in a million it is more common than you might think…\ > dodgy \*\* This is somewhat related – in my panic attacks, it seems like I have flashbacks from my dreams, and am not entirely sure where reality is. Reality gets ‘fuzzy’, if this makes any sense. Is this common in panic attacks? ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingRiddles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SwimmingRiddles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingRiddles)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/32 "2001-01-19T00:11:34Z")
I wrote a research paper on this topic. You can find it [here](http://members.aol.com/swimmingriddles/DIDpaper.html). Basically, an already vulnerable patient goes to a shrink. The shrink says something to the effect of “I think I know what you have, and once we have a diagnosis, you can start feeling better.” The patient, being told this by an authority figure, buys into it, and actually begins suffering for real. > [@](#): > > Anyone ever READ Sybil? WAs that true or not? Nope. [debunked.](http://www.astraeasweb.net/household/sybilbogus.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433/33 "2001-01-19T01:25:22Z")
Panic attacks are indeed associated with a surreal feeling and/or a “sense of impending doom”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-multiple-personality-disorder-doesnt-exist-what-they-got/48433.md?page=1)