# If my grandmother had balls... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563 "2004-10-11T03:15:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/1 "2004-10-11T03:15:46Z")
Sometimes, the Pittings [**write themselves**](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20041011/ap_on_re_mi_ea/rumsfeld_iraq_11): > [@](#): > > AL ASAD AIR BASE, Iraq - **The United States may be able to reduce its troop levels in Iraq after the January elections if security is strengthened and Iraqi government forces continue to expand and improve, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Sunday. Meanwhile, car bombers struck twice in rapid succession in the capital Sunday, killing at least 11 people including an American soldier.** > > Rocket-propelled grenade explosions and machine gun fire rocked the insurgent stronghold of Ramadi, west of Baghdad, late Sunday. Residents reached by telephone said insurgents launched attacks in a half dozen parts of Ramadi, and that four huge explosions shook the center of the city Sunday night. > > \ > > \*\*Before Rumsfeld appeared at the main operating base of the 3rd Marine Air Wing, the approximately 1,500 Marines in his audience were given instructions by Sgt. Maj. Dennis Reed on what not to ask. “Don’t ask when you’re going home. We’ll tell you when you’re going home,” Reed said. \*\* (my bolding) Just what fucking fantasy world does this guy live in? Must be mighty proud of the carnage he so ‘thoughtfully’ unleashed on Iraq. He’s not alone either, for apparently there are enough Americans ready to reward him for his efforts with four more years. Disgusting. Shock and Awe [**this** \*](http://www.robert-fisk.com/bloodied_iraqichild.jpg), Mother Fucker. If there’s a hell, hope to meet you there. \ ***Warning: Graphic picture.** ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/2 "2004-10-11T04:20:15Z")
If your grandmother had balls, wouldn’t she be your grandfather? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/3 "2004-10-11T05:44:39Z")
Damn you, **manatee** , for beating out the hundreds of Dopers (me included) who wanted to make that joke! ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/4 "2004-10-11T06:17:27Z")
> [@Manatee](#): > > If your grandmother had balls, wouldn’t she be your grandfather? Yup. It was an intended joke on the common maxim, for crying out loud. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/5 "2004-10-11T06:40:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **IF** my grandmother had balls, she’d be my grandfather – Yiddish saying > [@](#): > > The United States may be able to reduce its troop levels in Iraq after the January elections **IF** security is strengthened and Iraqi government forces continue to expand and improve – Rumsfeldian jabberwocky Contact 1-900-CLUE-PHONE for additional info. Or simply read **Atticus Finch’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/6 "2004-10-11T07:41:40Z")
Don’t hold it against Rummy. He’s just trying to find something, _anything_ that might possibly be even _potentially_ positive about the Iraq situation. I can say pretty confidently that there are a lot of people in that camp. Still, it’s pretty sobering that this is the best he can realistically hope for at this point. After over a year and a half and ungodly billions spent and over a thousand troops lost, we’re only now talking about a troop _reduction?_ Geez, this is making the Yugoslavia debacle look good. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/7 "2004-10-11T08:36:20Z")
Well, the point I’m trying to make – and apparently not very well – is that while Rumsfeld was delivering his carefully scripted pablum, all hell was literally breaking loose behind him. Mind you, not unlike almost any other day in Iraq, but in this particular instance it’s almost cartoonish. Rummy: “If security continues to improv…” BOOOM! Take cover Mr Secretary! Not only does it highlight the complete disconnect with reality most of the Administration continues to display, but in Rumsfeld’s case, one mustn’t forget that he is largely responsible for the post-invasion chaos. For he was the one that argued for, and ultimately got, a [“light, manoeuvrable force”](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/30/1048962644828.html?oneclick=true) over the larger troop requirements made by a number of military officers. Obviously the figures were right as far as defeating Saddam was concerned. But they were – and are – woefully inadequate to win the peace. Not that I think numbers matter anymore, for the ‘winning hearts and minds’ phase of the war, as idealistic as it was from the start, has already been lost. Way too many innocent Iraqis died and continue to die daily – and most of those death are, directly or indirectly, rightly attributed to the bumbling American occupation. Which brings us neatly back to the subject of the OP. The aging “Rock Star” Rummy, a.k.a. the Secretary of Defense, and his never-ending spin of a clearly failed strategy. Where was he when we saw him last? Oh yeah: _::::Rummy dusts himself off, walks back to podium::::_ “…as I was saying, if things continue to improve, and Iraqis fall in love with us, and if black is white and up is down, we’ll be out of here starting in…” BOOOM! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/8 "2004-10-11T09:40:00Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well, the point I’m trying to make – and apparently not very well … Shouldn’t you be learning logic and rhetoric somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/9 "2004-10-11T11:47:14Z")
**RedFury** , why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/10 "2004-10-11T15:42:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Shouldn’t you be learning logic and rhetoric somewhere? Not sure what makes you such a freaking imbecil, but whatever it is, it works _really_ well – you ought to get a patent on the stuff. That’s not an insult, it’s a diagnosis. * * * > [@lissener](#): > > RedFury, why do you hate America? I’ve been mulling that one over for some time now and I’ve reached the conclusion that Paris Hilton’s to blame. Of course the thought that my fourteen year old son, American born and bred, could end up becoming cannon fodder for the delusional bloodthirsty ideologues that have hijacked his country’s Government, never crosses my mind. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/11 "2004-10-11T15:59:05Z")
BTW, **lissener** , on that last point (possible return of draft), check out today’s columm by [\*\*Col. David H. Hackworth](http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=92&rnd=864.0107862074542)\*\* Couple of choice quotes: > [@](#): > > Recently, when John Kerry brought up the possibility of a return to the draft, SecDef Donald Rumsfeld was quick to respond that Kerry was full of it. > > But my take is that Kerry is right on the mark. **Not only because Rummy has been flat wrong on every major military call regarding Iraq** , but because this is a war that won’t be won by smart weapons or the sledgehammer firepower we see every night on the tube. > > \ > > Most of our warriors – who are mainly from blue-collar families from Small Town, USA – have few political connections and few conduits though which they can effectively sound off. So when they get screwed over by a desperate Pentagon’s makeshift policies – such as the “Stop Loss” program that’s holding over large numbers of our servicemen and -women well beyond their contractually agreed-upon terms of enlistment, or the widespread calling up of out-of-shape, ill-trained citizen soldiers from the Individual Ready Reserve – these “volunteers” salute, suck it up and lay their lives on the line. > > **But like elephants, they won’t forget that they are “backdoor draftees,” as Kerry and John McCain call them. Which means that when their hitches are up, they won’t be rushing to re-enlist. And they’re also warning their younger brothers, sisters and pals to stay away from recruiting stations.** > > Although Pentagon puff artists insist they’re making quota, recruiters are already saying it would be easier to find $100 bills on the sidewalk outside a homeless shelter than fill their enlistment quotas, even with the huge bonuses now being paid. > > **So the draft – which will include both boys and girls this time around – is a no-brainer in ‘05 and ‘06.** > > \ > > **Rumsfeld, in fact, has already kicked off the anti-draft campaign by denigrating the draftees who fought in Vietnam. The SecDef, who prefers sycophants who don’t ask questions** , recently stated that Vietnam-era draftees added “No value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services … because … it took an enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone.” Rummy fits right in with the rest of this Administration: every time he opens his mouth you just _know_ a lie is sure to follow. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/12 "2004-10-11T16:13:06Z")
Maybe the Colonel is yet another America hater? I doubt it. And we have a Secretary of Defense saying the people who were drafted were useless? I wonder, did Rummy go to that war? Or like his bosses did he hide behind 1) champagne units and 2) a string of deferments based on “other priorities”? How strange. An administartion full of Draft Dodgers, hollering for war, and then shitting on the very people who have to fight these wars. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/13 "2004-10-11T16:24:52Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Not sure what makes you such a freaking imbecil, but whatever it is, it works really well – you ought to get a patent on the stuff. That’s not an insult, it’s a diagnosis. A diagnosis? Either you are a fraud who claims to be a doctor, or a doctor who is a quack. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/14 "2004-10-11T23:08:43Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Rummy: “If security continues to improv…” BOOOM! Take cover Mr Secretary! > > … > > _::::Rummy dusts himself off, walks back to podium::::_ > > “…as I was saying, if things continue to improve, and Iraqis fall in love with us, and if black is white and up is down, we’ll be out of here starting in…” > > BOOOM! When I read this, I have to admit…I was thinking of the Iraqi Information Minister. Quite telling, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![midget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90db22/32.png) [@midget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/midget)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/15 "2004-10-12T03:17:54Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Of course the thought that my fourteen year old son, American born and bred, could end up becoming cannon fodder for the delusional bloodthirsty ideologues that have hijacked his country’s Government, never crosses my mind. Instituting a draft would be political suicide, and the chances of us having one in a conflict like this is slim to none. Maybe you should have some respect for the soldiers who felt this war was worth dying for, rather than feeling sorry for them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/16 "2004-10-12T03:54:38Z")
At least he didn’t say we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/17 "2004-10-12T04:12:37Z")
> [@midget](#): > > Instituting a draft would be political suicide, and the chances of us having one in a conflict like this is slim to none. Maybe you should have some respect for the soldiers who felt this war was worth dying for, rather than feeling sorry for them. I’m not yet at the point where I think there may be a draft (though admittedly, I’m starting to think I may just be in denial of it), but I do feel the need to point out, that if Bush wins again, it won’t matter if it’s political suicide to reinstate the draft, for he’ll already be on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/18 "2004-10-12T04:43:01Z")
> [@midget](#): > > Maybe you should have some respect for the soldiers who felt this war was worth dying for, rather than feeling sorry for them. And maybe you should stick your dick in a weedwhacker instead of telling me whom and what to respect? I simply don’t have the cult-like admiration so many Americans display for their soldiers, nor do I buy into simplistic “support the troops” sloganeering. Fuck that. To me, they are no different than any other Tom, Dick or Jane. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. As for the ones you specifically describe as “feeling that this war was worth dying for,” well then, they got their wish – my condolences to their families. It still doesn’t change the _fact_ that this is an ill-conceived war of choice based on lies and deception and that the ultimate responsability for their deaths lies on those that placed them in harm’s way. So yes, for that very reason I feel quite sad and extremely angry for many of those soldiers From above linked article: > [@Col. David H. Hackworth](#): > > **Most of our warriors – who are mainly from blue-collar families from Small Town, USA – have few political connections and few conduits though which they can effectively sound off. So when they get screwed over by a desperate Pentagon’s makeshift policies – such as the “Stop Loss” program that’s holding over large numbers of our servicemen and -women well beyond their contractually agreed-upon terms of enlistment, or the widespread calling up of out-of-shape, ill-trained citizen soldiers from the Individual Ready Reserve – these “volunteers” salute, suck it up and lay their lives on the line.** [**Or how about all these “free” Iraqis?**](http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) Did they think this war was 'worth dying for"? Were they ever given a choice? At least some of your soldiers were. As for your faith-based analysis as to why “instituting a draft would be political suicide,” perhaps you should read the rest of that article. Fact of the matter is that your CIC has stretched your armed forces near their breaking point by sending men to die and kill for brazen lies. And since he has shown such an utter contempt for truth, I see no reason why, if selected for a second term and free of further political career ambitions, he and his cabal wouldn’t actually be encouraged to do more of the same. But in order to do so, they’ll obviously need additional cannon fodder. _You_ believe all the Neocon Bushit? Enlist or send _your_ sons or daughters to die for “the cause” – whatever the fuck it happens to be at the moment. Because sure as shit, he’s NOT getting _mine_. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/19 "2004-10-12T04:47:53Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > When I read this, I have to admit…I was thinking of the Iraqi Information Minister. Quite telling, isn’t it? Old “Baghad Bob,” wasn’t it? Comic relief in the middle of hell. Guess it most be a bug or something that you catch upon arrival. Too bad it stopped being funny long ago. Now it’s just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563/20 "2004-10-12T11:28:25Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > But in order to do so, they’ll obviously need additional cannon fodder. _You_ believe all the Neocon Bushit? Enlist or send _your_ sons or daughters to die for “the cause” – whatever the fuck it happens to be at the moment. Because sure as shit, he’s NOT getting _mine_. Actually, it is Democrat Charles Rangel who wants them. He is the one, after all, who [sponsored the new draft legislation](http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-my-grandmother-had-balls/268563.md?page=2)