# If not a wall, what should there be at the border? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937 "2017-05-18T17:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/21 "2017-05-18T20:02:28Z")
Remove incentives to work and the feasibility of working illegally in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/22 "2017-05-18T20:20:46Z")
Maybe we need a force shield! Trump just said that organized drug gangs from other countries have _literally_ taken over towns and cities in the U.S., and I was wonder what the fuck is he referring to? WHAT towns and cities? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/23 "2017-05-18T20:30:13Z")
Windmills and solar panels would be a good thing to put down there. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/24 "2017-05-18T20:32:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … > What features should the border between the USA and Mexico \*ideally \*feature? (That is, within the US government’s power to install, not the Mexican government’s power.) Should there be a dotted line saying “This is the border?” There presumably needs to be something to delineate the boundary. Welcome signs? A fence, but not a big wall? Bathrooms like at highway rest stops and free free-flowing wells where someone can get a drink of water. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/25 "2017-05-18T20:38:36Z")
Missed edit window… I’m calling dibs on the slogan “Wells Not Walls”! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/26 "2017-05-18T20:46:24Z")
Can we have the same type of wall that surrounds Israel? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/27 "2017-05-18T20:48:49Z")
You’re that scared? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/28 "2017-05-18T21:03:05Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You’re that scared? He’s being facetious. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/29 "2017-05-18T21:04:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Bathrooms like at highway rest stops and free free-flowing wells where someone can get a drink of water. Are these transgender friendly bathrooms? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/30 "2017-05-18T21:07:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > He’s being facetious. Straight from Our President this very afternoon: “Walls work-Just ask Israel!” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/31 "2017-05-18T21:13:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Straight from Our President this very afternoon: “Walls work-Just ask Israel!” Oh, again? He’s done that a couple times I think. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/32 "2017-05-18T21:28:14Z")
I am not sure of the process here, but wouldn’t making the immigration/guest worker process more efficient (faster, safer) discourage people from entering illegally, thereby reducing the need for a wall or other structure? I agree strengthening of enforcement of drug trafficking laws would be good, tho. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/33 "2017-05-18T22:37:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What have we got between the U.S. and Canada? Which of these things is not like the other: 1. The US-Canadian border 2. The US-Mexican border. Hey, I’m against the wall, but there are good reasons to be against it and not so good reasons. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/34 "2017-05-18T22:41:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Which of these things is not like the other: > > 1. The US-Canadian border > > 2. The US-Mexican border. > Hey, I’m against the wall, but there are good reasons to be against it and not so good reasons. Right. It’s a bad analogy and worse argument. The big point against is the horrendous cost, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/35 "2017-05-18T23:06:08Z")
We seem to be getting away from the rubber duckies. Whilst most would perforce be say six inches tall — smaller and they would be indistinguishable — I’m sure your president could afford to get the Dutch Master Florentijn Hofman, to create his largest **[masterpiece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_Duck_(sculpture))** yet, to be King of the Moat. Since his biggest — **[they](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=florentijn+hofman+duck&num=100&client=ubuntu&hs=Jdr&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQtp6FxvrTAhXrL8AKHWzZBXgQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=938)** float in the great harbours — has ‘width, length, height of 26x20x32m’ I see no reason why Mr. Trump should not take the inaugural ride. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/36 "2017-05-18T23:23:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hey, I’m against the wall… What? Not _now_, man! The Revolution isn’t for another month! ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/37 "2017-05-19T03:55:54Z")
I thought this was Great Debates where questions were asked seriously and answered seriously. Instead it’s jokes, guffaws, and dog whistles to each other. Is it that you’re afraid to actually come right out and say you want open boarders? If not why not answer the question asked? ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/38 "2017-05-19T04:43:28Z")
As a resident of the Texas border, I favor a more comprehensive border policy over a “magic bullet” solution that will resolve nothing. 1. Most migration is from far southern Mexico and especially northern Central America. A real peace process in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras (which is essentially a low-intensity combat zone), coupled with better security in that area is essential. 2. A drug policy that will eliminate the worst of the drug war. Decriminalizing Marijuana and fighting the opiate and meth epidemic requires a consistent policy across North America. 3. A temporary work program that will allow for short-term, seasonal migration to farming areas. The policies of the last 30 years effectively “trap in” the people who would generally prefer to be seasonal migrants between Mexico and the U.S. This can’t be like the old “Bracero” program, but a system that creates real retirement benefits for Mexican retirees and work safety protections. 4. Mexico is already becoming a middle income country, overall. Its infrastructural growth (i.e. a new highway and bridge network that cuts travel from the Pacific to the Gulf dramatically) is already transforming the border economy. It is becoming faster for Texas and U.S. southern commodities to reach the Mexican coast than it is to go to Long Beach. This is big for American exports. 5. There are actually three borders at this point, the checkpoints that line Mexico around the 28th kilometer within their border zone, the border line itself, and the U.S. checkpoint line around 50 miles north of the border. American political rhetoric tends to focus on the line, but the reality for the last few decades is that the border is a zone, not a fixed line. A wall will have many complex consequences for all of the communities that are in the border zone and depend heavily on cross-border trade, wholesale and retail commerce, and cross-border industries. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/39 "2017-05-19T05:13:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Which of these things is not like the other: > > 1. The US-Canadian border > > 2. The US-Mexican border. > > Hey, I’m against the wall, but there are good reasons to be against it and not so good reasons. Well, I was also going to contrast with the Canadian border, but not to say “Hey, we don’t need a wall between us and Canada, therefore we don’t need one with Mexico”, which would obviously be a flawed argument. What I would have been saying is that borders generally are _not_ delineated for most of their length. The OP seems to be asking a general question about borders and it’s important to begin by saying most borders are not marked in any way, and we need specific reasons to spend money doing otherwise. So the conversation should be correctly framed as: “What are we trying to achieve at the border, and what are the best method(s) of achieving it (with the fewest drawbacks)?” instead of “Why not a border wall?” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/40 "2017-05-19T06:14:32Z")
The wall was a metaphor; It was always going to be a long line of our very worst White people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937.md?page=3)