# If not a wall, what should there be at the border? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937 "2017-05-18T17:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/141 "2017-07-16T16:38:07Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > 2 ) Who says just a wall? I want drone patrol and satellite imagery to detect tunnels, combined with a railroad for mobile bases. And all this will be paid by Mexico, of course. Here is [John Oliver’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI) analysis during the campaign on what a thirty-five foot wall will cost. (Summary, $25-billion, about double what Trump was estimating at the time, and about $2-billion a year thereafter for maintenance. That works out to $77 per person in the country just to build it.) He also touches on just how likely Mexico is to foot the bill, whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/142 "2017-07-16T16:40:30Z")
Does anyone have any good engineering details on how the Tijuana River crosses the border, under the existing wall? (I live in San Diego, and I’ve driven along the border on both sides in that area…and have no idea how the river gets across. Google maps photo view appears to show the big concrete river channel just going openly across.) This is the big question I’ve not heard wall debates cover: rivers! Gulches, creeks, canyons, arroyos! You can’t block the water, or you’ll have, not a wall, but a dam. But if water can get through…why can’t people? If you put in a grating, it’ll just get plugged with debris. (Also, really steep hillsides. Will the wall be reduced to a more nominal fence in regions where the terrain pretty much negates the possibility of crossing anyway?) Engineering nightmare, and hundred-billion dollar boondoggle…and most illegal immigrants arrive via ordinary transportation anyway! Only a relative few cross the desert; most come in a car, bus, boat, or plane. A great, great many arrive legally, and then outstay their permit. No wall is going to do jack boogers against that. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/143 "2017-07-16T17:05:27Z")
It’s cheaper to use a 223 and a license to kill any illegals seen and they’ll stop. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/144 "2017-07-23T21:02:48Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > We seem to be getting away from the rubber duckies. Whilst most would perforce be say six inches tall — smaller and they would be indistinguishable — I’m sure your president could afford to get the Dutch Master Florentijn Hofman, to create his largest **[masterpiece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_Duck_(sculpture))** yet, to be King of the Moat. > Since his biggest — **[they](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=florentijn+hofman+duck&num=100&client=ubuntu&hs=Jdr&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQtp6FxvrTAhXrL8AKHWzZBXgQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=938)** float in the great harbours — has ‘width, length, height of 26x20x32m’ I see no reason why Mr. Trump should not take the inaugural ride. Better yet, [The Supine Bunny](The Supine Bunny) - with the butt aimed southward and noxious gas piped through it. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/145 "2017-07-23T21:08:00Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > People need to think outside the box. > > … how about a railroad like a base for border patrols to travel ( and launch their cars )… [Horses!](http://historyonfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Posse.png) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/146 "2017-07-23T21:18:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What have we got between the U.S. and Canada? [Moose – until the last few years when MN started running low on them](http://www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/20121211__121212MinnesotaMooseCx.jpg?w=370). If you get your moose population up again, your illegal immigration problem will be solved. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/147 "2017-07-23T21:40:27Z")
People with guns, helicopters with people with guns, drones with guns. Shoot on site. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/148 "2017-07-23T21:40:28Z")
Of course moose is not the only way of effectively dealing with illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America. [syncrolecyne already covered that very nicely at post 38](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20218101&postcount=38). Quite simply, if you stabilize the region, you’ll cut the flood of people wanting into the USA down to a trickle. [Read up on Programa Frontera Sur](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-costly-border-mexico-wont-discuss-migration/article30397720/). Most of the people trying to get into the USA from Mexico are not Mexicans. They are only transiting Mexico on their way to the USA, and Mexico is diligently trying to keep them from getting into Mexico in the first place. The more you shit on Mexico, the less inclined Mexico will be to act as your first line of defence against illegal immigration from Central America. The less you do to stabilize Central America, the greater your illegal immigration problem will become. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/149 "2017-07-23T21:46:13Z")
Now getting back to moose, remember that the Mexican/USA border cuts through almost countless communities – ecological communities. Now I’m not suggesting that you populate your southern border with moose, but rather I am pointing out that your southern border is already populated by a great many species of plant and animal life. If you build an impenetrable wall, you will permanently bisect habitats. That’s not a wise thing to do. That is a monumentally stupid, even Trumpidian thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/150 "2017-07-24T01:58:18Z")
While that’s true, it’s (alas) not at all uncommon. Big freeways cut through habitats, separating them, and big cities are worse, as they consume and destroy habitats entirely. Now, how they are going to let water drain through watercourses crossed by the wall, I cannot guess. Seems like a really tricky engineering issue. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/151 "2017-07-24T04:37:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are these transgender friendly bathrooms? I have never encountered a transgender-unfriendly bathroom. I guess bathrooms are far more civilized than people, some of whom are total assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937/152 "2017-07-24T04:41:19Z")
Just put in cellphone coverage, then you can find anyone who’s out there illegally. We have long since passed the point when any human being is capable of switching their phone off for long enough to walk across a desert. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-a-wall-what-should-there-be-at-the-border/786937.md?page=7)