# If not America, who would you like to be The Superpower? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076 "2002-12-02T23:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/81 "2002-12-06T20:01:27Z")
> [@](#): > > To the OP: Let’s have Greenpeace as a superpower. Yes, yessssss. Anyone else read that in the voice of Golem? As for the OP. Mexico would be a great super power if it’s internal problems weren’t so bad in addition to it being a decidedly religious nation. Canada, Australia, or a coalition of the scandinavian countries would probably be the best bet. For an interesting world, Thailand mixed with Mexico and West Africa (LOL) would rank up there too. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/82 "2002-12-06T20:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dorkusmalorkusmafia \* > **Anyone else read that in the voice of Golem?** \ You mean _Gollum_. A _golem_ is a magically constructed, animated creature in _Dungeons & Dragons_. \ ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/83 "2002-12-06T20:33:00Z")
\ Talk of Dungeons and Dragons for ANY reason is not something that should be discussed by anyone over 14 lest you be referred to as “comic bookstore guy” from the Simpsons. \ ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/84 "2002-12-07T01:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*maybe it should be percentage of spending per population? Of course, that would mean countries like North Korea would be in the mix. \*\* The same almanac that gave me total military expenditures ranks the spending as a percent of GDP this way: **North Korea Oman Saudi Arabia Kuwait Iraq Russia Croatia Israel** with other pieces of Yugoslavia in there, but with vague percentages. For absolute expenditures: **USA Russia China Japan France Germany UK Italy Saudi Arabia South Korea Taiwan Brazil Canada Israel Spain** USA ranks #39 on the percent of GDP, China #86. Canada (since I made such a big deal about it) ranks #112, while Australia with its smaller economy ranks #78. This is from a 2000 almanac. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/85 "2002-12-07T02:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CuriousCanuck \* > \*\*\ > > Talk of Dungeons and Dragons for ANY reason is not something that should be discussed by anyone over 14 lest you be referred to as “comic bookstore guy” from the Simpsons. > > \ \*\* You’re just jealous that my 9th-level paladin can beat up your 8th-level ranger. ---
**Author:** ![auliya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@auliya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auliya)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/86 "2002-12-07T03:09:10Z")
Australia, definitely, as long as John Howard is replaced by Peter Garrett 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/87 "2002-12-07T05:50:35Z")
Yeah and as long as Garrett promises not to wear a suit but goes shirtless as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/88 "2002-12-07T14:11:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*? We have our own people that need help, yet we send billions of $$ & goods to foreign countries in an effort to help. Thousands of our citizens volunteer to assist other countries, many to their own detriment. > > \*\* Actually, the US don’t give much in the way of foreign aid (less than any other developped country in %age of GNP), and it’s not like there aren’t any volunteers from other countries working in develloping countries. Foreign aid is really not the strong point of the US. At the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/89 "2002-12-07T14:14:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > \*\*The same almanac that gave me total military expenditures ranks the spending as a percent of GDP this way: > \*\*North Korea > Oman > Saudi Arabia > Kuwait > Iraq > \*\* That would make great world leaders… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/90 "2002-12-07T14:18:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > \*\* > > Tragically I am at work and can’t tell you what its called at present, but it was called something like the office of the saints. > \*\* It’s called the congregation for the doctrine of the faith… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/91 "2002-12-07T14:22:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*\ > > A _golem_ is a magically constructed, animated creature in _Dungeons & Dragons_. > > \*\* Actually, the golems predate “dungeons and dragons”. It seems to me these artificial beings are related to the Jewish tradition, or at least were said to be related to esoteric Jewish traditions. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/92 "2002-12-07T14:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryan\_Liam \* > **I want Britain to be a superpower again…** I put my french veto on this proposal… ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/93 "2002-12-07T16:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*Actually, the US don’t give much in the way of foreign aid (less than any other developped country in %age of GNP), and it’s not like there aren’t any volunteers from other countries working in develloping countries. > Foreign aid is really not the strong point of the US. At the contrary. \*\* GNP, schmeeNP. You can’t challenge the fact that the US provides more foreign aid than any other country. But since it’s not our strong point, I guees we should stop sending it. What a relief. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/94 "2002-12-07T17:22:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\*GNP, schmeeNP. You can’t challenge the fact that the US provides more foreign aid than any other country. > > But since it’s not our strong point, I guees we should stop sending it. What a relief. \*\* Actually, it doesn’t. Japan gives more foreign aid. The US is only second (though I believe Japan reduced its foreign aid last year, but generally speaking, this country is the first donor in amount) . Germany or France foreign aid is in the same league (in amount) than US foreign aid with only 1/3 or 1/4th of the US population (and a much lower GNP). Some north-european countries who spend close to 1% of their GNP on foreign aid are way above the US (relatively speaking, in %age of GNP). As for stopping sending it : sure, even if the US gave only 1/10th of what it gives, it would still be better than nothing. But what I mean is that you can’t use the US supposed generosity as an argument to say it somehow deserves to be the world leader. If you think this a valid reason, then either Japan or Denmark should be the world leader, not the US. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/95 "2002-12-07T17:50:54Z")
No one claimed foreign aid to be the deciding factor in regards to the OP. I simply meant that should be a part of the reason. BTW the US is #1 in dollars beating out Japan by a few billion. First time in a few years though. The US gave twice as much as France and since we’re on it. Most of France’s foreign aid went to French Indonesia. While the US gave basically equal divisions of it’s F/Aid pie w/ Europe taking a big slice. Almost no foreign aid came to the Americas from Europe. I’m not trying to have a pissing contest, but this is one where few can compete. Reason for smaller countries w/ greater % aid=less military spending. I said before, we’re not perfect, never claimed to be…politics usually fucks up the people’s intent. If the money the US people give went exactly where it was intended…then all would be well. You know how that goes! [http://www.oecd.org/oecd/pages/home/displaygeneral/0,3380,EN-countrylist-57-2-no-no-77-57,00.html](http://www.oecd.org/oecd/pages/home/displaygeneral/0,3380,EN-countrylist-57-2-no-no-77-57,00.html) [http://www.oecd.org/oecd/pages/home/displaygeneral/0,3380,EN-countrylist-57-2-no-no-77-57,00.html](http://www.oecd.org/oecd/pages/home/displaygeneral/0,3380,EN-countrylist-57-2-no-no-77-57,00.html) Peace ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/96 "2002-12-07T17:50:59Z")
Some figures from the CIA factbook, \*\* Il Topo \*\* The USA, with a population of 281 millions and a GDP of 10 082 billions dollars gives 6.9 billions $ in foreign aid. As for the country I mentionned : Japan (45% of the US population, 34% of US GDP) gives 9,1 billions $ ( 30% more than the US) Germany (30% of US population, 26% of the US GDP) gives 5,6 billions $ (81% of the US aid) France (21% of US population, 15% of its GDP) gives 6,3 billions $ (91% of the US aid) Denmark (2% of the US population, 1.5% of its GDP) gives 1,6 billions $ (23% of US the aid!!!) Just to make clear that the US not only isn’t the first foreign aid donors, but is only roughly on par with other major (but much smaller and less rich) western countries, and that some little countries, with only 1 or 2% of the US wealth manage to give 1/4th of what the US gives. Actually, the US is known (except amongst some poorly informed american people, apparently) as a particulary _not_ generous country. The US stopping giving foreign aid wouldn’t make more difference than France stopping giving foreign aid, or scandinavian countries stopping giving foreign aid. The US aid is significant, but not _that_ significant in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/97 "2002-12-07T18:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*Most of France’s foreign aid went to French Indonesia. To french Indonesia 😕 What is this thing? > [@](#): > > Reason for smaller countries w/ greater % aid=less military spending. Then state that the US should be world leader because it spend more on his military than anybody else. Not because it gives plenty of money in foreign aid. Or else, I can as well claim that France should be world leader because it has a larger population than any other country. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/98 "2002-12-07T18:08:19Z")
Sorry that was supposed to be Polynesia, I posted a correction but it didn’t take. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/99 "2002-12-07T18:17:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\* > The US gave twice as much as France and since we’re on it. Most of France’s foreign aid went to French Indonesia. I gathered from [this page](http://www.france.diplomatie.fr/france/fr/politiq/06.html) (but it’s in french) that (poorly translated) : - France is the second aid donor with an amount of public foreign aid of € 5,64 billions ( $ 6,35 billions), behind Japan but before the US and Germany. This amount represents 0,45% of its GNP (average of the develloped countries : 0,22%) \* (I don’t know to which year this page is refering to, though) - The geographical distribution of bilateral aid reveals \*\* a strong concentration in sub-saharian Africa, which received in 1996 42,2 % of the aid (€ 1,9 billions, $ 2,06 billions) \*\* \* So, I assume by “french indonesia” you meant “former french colonies in sub-saharian Africa”… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076/100 "2002-12-07T18:18:12Z")
I definitely have an issue with bolding (yes…I know…I should review…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-america-who-would-you-like-to-be-the-superpower/140076.md?page=6)