# If not college, then what? Trade jobs are even worse? (young adult problems in the US for jobs) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 5, 2025, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532 "2025-07-05T11:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/201 "2025-08-16T18:05:11Z")
I sometimes think calling jobs in a large company “bullshit” or “useless” is akin to calling tonsils and the appendix bullshit and useless because you can live without them. Well, yes you can - you can also live without the “waste of resources” to maintain two kidneys, two lungs, two eyes, etc. At some point the "increased efficiency” becomes intolerable and inefficient. Turns out that all of that served some use after all. Not a perfect analogy but then they never are. But you get my drift - what you think of as useless bullshit might have a purpose after all. Be careful how you prune. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/202 "2025-08-16T18:46:38Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I understand. I’ve been a consultant and worked in Strategy, Finance and “Operational Optimization” (consulting + industrial engineering) for 25+ years and have had a front row seat to how sausage is made in org design as well as how front line standards are developed and implemented. Bain, McKinsey, Oliver Wyman, BCG, I’ve worked with them all and a bunch of more boutique firms. > > But in ALL the large organizations I have worked for or consulted for there are hundreds or thousands of jobs that Graeber would call bullshit. Every single organization. In the US, Europe, China and Japan. A huge number of “bullshit jobs”. > > So all of commercial enterprises seem awash with useless bullshit jobs. That means they are either essential or there is a huge market failure. > > Some of what people describe as bullshit jobs is analogous to calling security guards useless because there is so little theft. Being in the same space, I would say that commercial enterprises are awash with huge inefficiencies. And these inefficiencies can often be hidden behind busywork and pretty PowerPoint decks. I might even go so far as to argue these inefficiencies and “bullshit jobs” are necessary for companies, indeed society to function. People aren’t robots and I for one don’t want to work for a company where I am constantly monitored to ensure that I’m 100% efficiently carrying out tasks with no slack time. I feel like my dad’s generation, it was sort of an unspoken rule that as you rose up and gained tenure in an organization, it was understood that they sort of let you ride it out until retirement. Now companies are quick to eliminate positions if they think it will save a few bucks. But there is a cost to all that churn. There is often value in retaining that institutional knowledge, even if the people retaining it aren’t super busy every second of the day. A few years back, one of my junior project managers asked me why our director thought I was such a great project manager as I never seemed “busy”. My response was “Is the captain doing anything when he’s just standing on the bridge ‘not looking busy’. I’ll bet Edward Smith (captain of the Titanic) was really busy for the last 90 minutes of that voyage. Busy doesn’t mean things are going well.” Which seems to be a trend now in Corporate America that everyone has to look busy busy busy all the time even if what they are doing isn’t particularly productive. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/203 "2025-08-16T18:50:48Z")
> [@BrickBat](#): > > I think it could be a sentiment filtered through class as well. In David Graeber’s book ‘ **Bullshit Jobs** ’ he relates at how just what constitutes “essential” is viewed less shrewdly at the upper income/class end than at the lower ends of the economic spectrum. From this, their assumption is that more “fat” ( Bullshit? ) is tolerated or thought of the natural order of being at the top, whereas jobs on the lower to bottom have to prove their worth and cost-effectiveness nine ways to Sunday. I’ve noticed this at some of my clients at my last firm. Even though I was one of the most senior and expensive resources on the project, clients would pay my billable time much less scrutiny than the technical resources. They were fine with me providing “managerial oversight” but would nickel and dime the devs and architects and other resources who actually did the work. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/204 "2025-08-18T00:02:35Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > So useless people are essential to any organization that achieves any meaningful size? AT&T? Comcast? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/205 "2025-08-18T00:34:44Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > AT&T? Comcast? What does this mean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532.md?page=10)