# If not college, then what? Trade jobs are even worse? (young adult problems in the US for jobs) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 5, 2025, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532 "2025-07-05T11:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/41 "2025-07-05T17:39:48Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > This is true. My older brother was one of these people. He was useless at anything requiring tools My dad (third one…but the one I call that) was one of the smartest people I have ever met. Not kidding…wicked smart man. I swear he did not know one side of a screwdriver from another. The most mechanically inept person I have ever met. That is mostly truth with just a touch of hyperbole. I am not kidding. It was weird. Brilliant guy and yet a moron in another area…really, really bad. He knew it though and just let others do that stuff. Terrible driver too. This he did not know. A man drove his family. We screamed in the back seat. Yet still a brilliant guy. We all have different aptitudes. I don’t think anyone is expected to be good at everything. I think it is a parent’s job to expose their kids to many things. They will hopefully click in to whatever they have a knack for. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/42 "2025-07-05T17:39:57Z")
I left college after two semesters, realizing that academia was not a viable path for me. I ended up as an electrician specializing in installing, servicing programming and repairing commercial fire alarms. I did that for forty two years and always made better than decent wages and benefits ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/43 "2025-07-05T17:42:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The “show up on time”, “actually work” and “be willing to learn and adapt” seems to be the biggest obstacles for people these days. Without those three, though, you’re not really going anywhere no matter what you do. Agree. But many HR departments also have some minimum screening in place. A friend of mine works at a local manufacturer, and he said it’s _ **very** _ difficult to find someone who a) wants a job, b) is not a felon, and c) can pass a drug test. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/44 "2025-07-05T17:57:16Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > A friend of mine works at a local manufacturer, and he said it’s _ **very** _ difficult to find someone who a) wants a job, b) is not a felon, and c) can pass a drug test. How much do they pay? Is it minimum wage to stand in one place gutting fish on a conveyor line eight hours a day with two fifteen minute potty/snack breaks? I’d want to be on drugs to do that. Better wages get better employees usually. Details matter for this. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/45 "2025-07-05T18:14:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > A friend of mine works at a local manufacturer, and he said it’s _ **very** _ difficult to find someone who a) wants a job, b) is not a felon, and c) can pass a drug test. The “felon” thing is one of those things for which “it depends” - is this a _recent_ felon or someone who has been out for 10 years without getting in further trouble with the law? Because the later might actually be a decent employee. Also, _what_ was the felony? Someone who passed bad checks might be OK as long money isn’t involved in their job. It’s a touchy area but it’s one where you might get a good employee if your criteria aren’t too strict and/or you’re willing to look at the specifics of an individual. If it’s a hard “you can’t have a felony ever anywhere in your record, period.” then you might be excluding possible employees. But maybe this particular job really does require that. I don’t know. The drug test thing is problematic if they’re operating heavy machinery. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/46 "2025-07-05T18:16:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > > > What is the actual goal? > > It will be different for everyone but I think we can guess at a minimum enough income to buy a modest but nice home (as in clean, no bugs/vermin and reasonably safe area) and raise a family (say three kids or less). Health benefits for you and the family too. > > I’m just guessing but I think a lot of people would be happy with that. If you want a mansion and yacht then go for it. Okay. So the goal is 100% income, and 0% education and 0% job satisfaction. That doesn’t actually seem very difficult to achieve. Junior college to save money, with a greater focus on job opportunities than on grades; state school to save money, same. If you’re actively interning / networking during this time, you should be able to walk into a middle-class white-collar job without too much difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/47 "2025-07-05T18:19:17Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > So the goal is 100% income, and 0% education and 0% job satisfaction. I do not understand this. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/48 "2025-07-05T18:22:18Z")
I asked what your goal was, and you answered that it was a job, with the ability to buy certain things. I was assuming the hypothetical 18-year-old in the OP. You didn’t say anything about the job other than its income, so I assume low job satisfaction but a good paycheck is fine (some people work to live, and are okay with that). You didn’t say anything about wanting an education, so college or trade school would be a means to a job, with the education provided incidental. If I misunderstood, please say. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/49 "2025-07-05T18:25:41Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > You didn’t say anything about wanting an education, I thought learning a trade implied an education. Might be in a school or on the job or a combination of both. It is still an education. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/50 "2025-07-05T18:26:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m just not sure those career paths are aplenty anymore. Sure, some will do it but thousands will not. It was never the case that everyone could follow those paths. Not in the trades, not in office jobs, not in service jobs. There are always fewer jobs the higher up you go - in my area, you generally have one foreman to ten electricians and therefore most electricians will never become foremen but it wasn’t any different 50 years ago. My son started working as a janitor for a large city housing authority (over 200 developments) ten years ago . He got promoted to a job in the heating plant and continued to get promoted. He now inspects the heating plants - but I guarantee that most of the people hired with him are still janitors. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/51 "2025-07-05T18:27:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Add that to some pilots flying regional jets. Maybe it is a stepping stone for them but seems way too little to me. Being a pilot is a dream job for a lot of people, so I suspect companies can get away with relatively low wages because there are plenty of candidates who want their chance at that dream job. > [@Chronos](#): > > This is true. To a large degree, our educational system tries to determine which students are suited for college, and which aren’t, and then tries to steer those who aren’t suited for college towards the trades. I graduated high school in 1994 from Plano, Texas. Nobody, not a single person, ever spoke to me about the trades. The administrators measured their success by how many of their students went on to college and scholarships they were awarded. If you weren’t going to college, the Plano Independent School District didn’t give a damn. I do think the trades are a good option for many people. But it’s not exactly a panacea. Many of them involve difficult work that’s hard on the body and I don’t know many tradesmen in their 40s or older who haven’t damaged their bodies somehow. My uncle was an electrician, worked exclusively on commercial buildings, and he loved his job and his union working until he was in his early 60s. But he suffered liver damage from the Hepatitis him and several coworkers caught from a restaurant they all ate at while on the job and it’s what ultimately killed him. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/52 "2025-07-05T18:35:57Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It was never the case that everyone could follow those paths. Not in the trades, not in office jobs, not in service jobs. There are always fewer jobs the higher up you go - in my area, you generally have one foreman to ten electricians and therefore most electricians will never become foremen but it wasn’t any different 50 years ago. Sure but 50 years ago that electrician made enough to own a house and support a family. The foreman also had a boat or camper. Can either do that today? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/53 "2025-07-05T18:37:47Z")
Well, learning ANYTHING implies an education. I meant that your 18-year-old’s GOAL wasn’t an education. I assumed it wasn’t to avoid any and all education. That’s why I suggested a path through college, but with minimal focus on education (“C s get degrees”), and more focus on the post-college job. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/54 "2025-07-05T18:40:38Z")
I don’t think there are many jobs that will allow you to buy a house in your 20s or 30s the way people could fairly easily do 50 years ago. That’s not a jobs issue or an education issue, that’s a housing issue. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/55 "2025-07-05T18:44:06Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It was never the case that everyone could follow those paths. Not in the trades, not in office jobs, not in service jobs. There are always fewer jobs the higher up you go - in my area, you generally have one foreman to ten electricians and therefore most electricians will never become foremen but it wasn’t any different 50 years ago. It may just be me but it seems you are tip-toeing around the edge of “education” to mean only university. Trade schools are schools. They teach things. They impart knowledge. Same as any university does. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/56 "2025-07-05T18:44:23Z")
You are right. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/57 "2025-07-05T18:45:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How many employers will hire you to learn on the job as (say) a welder and you naturally are slow and screw-up a lot? Not dumping on them…learning takes time and practice. If the person is not paying to learn the skill at a school who is absorbing the cost to teach them? That depends on a lot - around here , if you get into a union apprentice program, the union trains you. Fulltime, paid for usually 2-4 years. And some of them arrange and pay for you to get an associate’s degree. But that’s for the sort of job where you get work through a union hiring hall. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sure but 50 years ago that electrician made enough to own a house and support a family. The foreman also had a boat or camper. Can either do that today? The electricians make up to $59 hour - if by support a family, you mean support a wife who earns no income and four kids, maybe, maybe not. But society as a whole has changed enough that lots of jobs can’t provide the same life they did in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/58 "2025-07-05T18:51:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > …the union trains you. Fulltime, paid for usually 2-4 years. The union pays for 2-4 years of training with salary? Where does that come from? I assume other member’s dues but it seems expensive and the union needs a strike fund and other stuff. If it happens those seem very rare and special positions. I can’t imagine there being a lot of them available but a whole lot of people who want them. Which, with no evidence whatsoever leads me to suspect you need to know the right people (or more likely mom and/or dad do). ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/59 "2025-07-05T18:52:29Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > This means that the company is getting cheap labor in return for teaching. In Canada, this is often abused, with companies getting cheap labour, end of sentence. Also, it is a mistake to think immigration attracts only “unskilled” labour that cannot do trades work. Employers can hire very skilled workers from other countries and pay them much less than they pay “American” tradespeople. In Soviet Canuckistan, where such things are not supposed to happen, one company hired skilled construction workers from Costa Rica and paid them a magnificent $4/hour, which was below the BC minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532/60 "2025-07-05T18:53:31Z")
I don’t think you were replying to me but I think that what @Dr.Drake was referring to was wanting an education for its own sake. I once mentioned here that there was no way in hell I would have gone to college if I was going to end up with the same sort of life I could have had right out of high school and some people were shocked that going to college had anything to do with money [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-college-then-what-trade-jobs-are-even-worse-young-adult-problems-in-the-us-for-jobs/1020532.md?page=4)