# If Obama is assassinated, the right's use of "messiah" will be directly responsible **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382 "2008-11-12T18:05:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/21 "2008-11-12T19:20:55Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > No, if Obama is assassinated, the idiot who committed the act will be directly responsible. I do not think that the phrase “directly responsible” means what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/22 "2008-11-12T19:31:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > the accusations that Obama supporters hold any irrational adoration of him is completely made up Ha! Obligatory counter cite: [I'm totally in love with Barack Obama. He makes me weepy with happiness. - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=489424) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/23 "2008-11-12T19:40:42Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Ha! Obligatory counter cite: [I'm totally in love with Barack Obama. He makes me weepy with happiness. - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=489424) Damn, that was just too easy. [So is this.](http://media.www.smithsophian.com/media/storage/paper587/news/2008/09/18/Opinions/i.Will.Follow.Him.Obama.As.My.Personal.Jesus-3440311.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/24 "2008-11-12T19:45:54Z")
That second one is a whoosh. The first one is silly, but not on the order of literal worship, which is what the right wants people to believe. Obama supporters (possibly excluding a few unavoidable crazies) do not think he is possessed of any supernatural abilities or virtues. That belief that he is a supernatural _evil_ truly does exist, in abundance, on the right. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/25 "2008-11-12T19:58:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ?? The hell? What planet are you living on, where **any** criticism **at all** of Obama is muted or censored in any way? Hell, there are internet banner ads all over the place telling me to “kiss my paycheck goodbye” because Obama’s going to be President. > > No criticism of Obama, however rabid or frankly delusional, appears to be off-limits, and much of it is enthusiastically welcomed by many right-wingers, no matter how offensive, inflammatory, or batshit insane it may be. Where are you imagining that this “real danger” of stifling anti-Obama remarks is going to come from? Well that’s a pay site I believe or an ad for some paid service. I’d be more concerned with the legitimate media (one that doesn’t have to use shock advertisement to reign in readers) being somewhat muted, at least initiall, in their criticism of Obama. I’ve yet to see any mainstream media pundit to completely lose the plot on Obama. I think the Messiah notion may be a little far fetched and possibly giving Hannity far too much credit. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/26 "2008-11-12T19:59:01Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > It’s no secret that many on the wacko religious right actually think that Obama is some sort of Antichrist or harbinger of the end times. It’s not just them. Since the election, I’ve had _several_ people tell me that they fear Obama may be someone sinister, perhaps even “the Antichrist” – yes, some have used the word “Antichrist” without any prompting. And these are non-Christian liberals who VOTED for Obama! My fundie **KGSMom** doesn’t believe Obama = Antichrist (she thinks Obama might usher in the “real” Antichrist, but that’s years off) but she’s hearing the same sort of “chatter” in her church group, most of whom aren’t nearly as fundamenalist as my mother (and she’s actually quite liberal, for a fundie.) It’s no surprise, really. The common thread of these people I mentioned is that they’ve all been raised in Sunday School classes, where they talk about the End Times and The Apocalypse as if it’s something that _will_ eventually happen. Now these deeply ingrained childhood fears are coming back to haunt us, since this man we just elected just _happens_ to fit the profile of the fictional Antichrist. It’s just coincidence, of course (there IS no Antichrist, there will NEVER BE an Antichrist, the whole concept is fear-based and stupid!) but I’ve been reading the Bible in depth lately, and the synchronicity has never been this strong before. Here is the dogma commonly preached as who the “Antichrist” will be: (1) **Charismatic.** Yup, Obama’s got that in spades. (2) **A Peacemaker.** Obama is black, pro-Muslem, and has already promised to end our stupid U.S. wars. (3) Will come at a time of **Great Crisis.** Yup, I’m still watching the financial news, the stock market’s down to 8400 today… (4) Will be hailed as **The New Messiah.** (And this is the part which makes me scream, “STFU, LOUIS FARRAKAN!!”) It’s all silly fiction, of course. Turns out, like the Rapture and Hell itself, there is NO Biblical reference for “The Antichrist” in the Bible AT ALL. The word “antichrist” is only used in 2 John, and the actual text clearly refers to false prophets in general: > [@2 John 2:18-22 (NIV)](#): > > Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist – he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. I’ve underlined the two parts which make it clear, when taken in context, that the Beloved Disciple John was referring only to (a) false prophets, and (b) non-Christians in general. So technically, there are millions of antichrists – all Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, New Agers and agnostics, anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is an antichrist. The SDMB itself is filled to the brim with antichrists – hey! We should have an Antichrist Dopefest! 🆒 But, there’s more. Traditionally, the “Antichrist” is equivalent to The Beast as described in Revelation 13, which is where things get a little scary: > [@Revelation 13:1-2](#): > > And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horse, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. Clearly, to my mind, this passage predicts a One-World Government. And I suspect the topic of the upcoming G20 summit on November 15th will directly address the need for a united one-world economy, eventually leading to some type of one-world government. (Yes, I’m aware of all the “New World Order” conspiracy theories – like Biblical prophecy, these theories are inherently fear-based, due to human’s natural tendency to Fear change and Fear the future.) I think this recent “credit crunch” – in particular the time from September to mid-October when the banks suddenly stopped lending credit to each other – really scared the shit out of a lot of people, especially the top leaders in government, commerce, and finance. We shall see how things play out – especially now that America has a new liberal president, who has promised universal health care and other left-wing ideas which, until now, have often been regarded as pure socialism…except, “socialism” is no longer a dirty word, to most Americans. Then we get to the next passage: > [@Revelation 13:3](#): > > One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Oh, shit – this is what we skeptics refer to as a “self-fullfilling prophecy.” :eek: And this is why I’ve been telling people for weeks now: “If someone takes a shot at Obama, it will NOT be a racist, it will be a crazy fundamentalist whackjob who thinks Obama is the Antichrist/Beast.” Everyone’s worried about racism, but most genuine racists simply don’t have the BALLS to try and shoot the President. OTOH, while I’m no longer a fundie Xtian, I was raised under that faith, and I remember exactly how my mind worked during that brief time when I “gave my life to Jesus Christ” – it’s not just faith, or belief. IT IS REALITY TO THESE PEOPLE. And yes, I think many of them are downright crazy enough to try and fulfill Rev. 13:3, just to satisfy the little demonic voices in their heads. And such a person would be “On A Mission”, just like John Hinkley who flew under the radar and attempted to assassinate Reagan – some lonely Xtian whackjob, isolated from most friends & family (except his church, perhaps), bereft of logic and reason, driven by repressed anger and fear, and desperate enough to attempt such a stupid, stupid stunt. And there are MILLIONS of people like that in this country! That being said, I don’t think Barack Obama’s in any real physical danger now. Now that he’s our new President, he can remain deep behind the veil of Secret Service protection – he doesn’t have to expose himself and pretend to be “A Man of the People” by freely mingling with the Electorate. So, I think he’s safe from an assassination attempt until the next campaign cycle begins, which is at least 3½ years away. Wait…3½ years? OH CRAP! I just read the next verse: > [@Revelation 13:5](#): > > The Beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. Aw, hell. That’s the problem with playing the Bible Code game…after awhile, it’s starts to make way too much sense. 🆒 Think I’ll go play Civilization IV for awhile instead… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/27 "2008-11-12T20:04:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That second one is a whoosh. > > The first one is silly, but not on the order of literal worship, which is what the right wants people to believe. Obama supporters (possibly excluding a few unavoidable crazies) do not think he is possessed of any supernatural abilities or virtues. That belief that he is a supernatural _evil_ truly does exist, in abundance, on the right. So no true democrat/liberal holds any irrational adoration of Obama. Gotcha ya. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/28 "2008-11-12T20:04:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think the OP was saying that by calling him a messiah, they make it more likely that a religious lunatic will decide Obama is the antichrist and kill him for that reason. I don’t agree either. Oh, I think I see the “logic” now–Obama’s supporter’s are evil (in the christian sense), Obama is the messiah of the evil people, so he’s the anti-christ. The problem with this analysis though is that the bible doesn’t really say that christians should kill the anti-christ (I don’t think), his coming just signals the time when jesus returns to kick some ass. So even under this analysis calling Obama the messiah isn’t really a call for assassination or even a very direct reference to it. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/29 "2008-11-12T20:07:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is absolutely no one on the left who sincerely thinks Obama is a Messiah. He’s not the Christian Messiah (or anti-Messiah) but he’s definitely the Liberal Messiah – or, at least, he has the potential to be the guy who steers the U.S.A. towards the model of socialist democracy as shown by Europe and Canada. Indeed, after playing around with the Bible Code I’ve found some very interesting synchronicities. Revelation presumes there will be a seven-year Christian Tribulation – well, if you expand that to assert that _every_ religion, race, and political party experiences it’s own Seven-Year tribulation, take a look at this timeline: 9/11/01 – the start of the Liberal Tribulation. (Well, it actually started earlier, but 9/11 is a supremely major event which should not be ignored.) 9/12/08 – Hurricane Ike lands on Houston, plus the Metrolink crash in L.A.; both events were the first Major Portent of the current Global Financial Crisis, which is also the start of the Conservative Tribulation. Exactly Seven Years + One Day. IOW, we liberals have survived our own Tribulation, we are in the 1,000 year reign now. 🆒 The Conservative Tribulation is now underway (and will continue to get worse until they drive the Xtian fundies out of their party) and the Fundamentalist Christian Tribulation is yet to come – and I believe the Christian Tribulation will be entirely self-manufactured. These people are seriously nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/30 "2008-11-12T20:10:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So even under this analysis calling Obama the messiah isn’t really a call for assassination or even a very direct reference to it. It’s not a _call_ for assassination, no. But given that fundamentalist crazies tend to play pretty fast and loose with scripture anyway, it wouldn’t be surprising if some of them took it that way. Everybody wants to be a hero, and these people are nuts. While I think the Obama assassination concerns are drastically overblown - after he won the election we had about four threads about his death pop up within 48 hours, and it can get obsessive - I do think it’s very irresponsible to compare somebody to the antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/31 "2008-11-12T20:11:51Z")
I am still wondering how it will be the fault of the right if Obama gets assassinated, because they called him the messiah, but not the fault of the left, even though they called him [the messiah](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowxMcVTjTE). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/32 "2008-11-12T20:27:58Z")
1. the left doesn’t call him the Messiah 2. When the right calls him the Messiah, they’re really calling him the Antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/33 "2008-11-12T20:31:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. When the right calls him the Messiah, they’re really calling him the Antichrist. No. When the right calls him the Messiah, they are mocking the left’s irrational adoration of him: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/34 "2008-11-12T20:31:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. the left doesn’t call him the Messiah > 2. When the right calls him the Messiah, they’re really calling him the Antichrist. You can tell yourself that until you’re blue in the face, but both cases are demonstrably false. Why you continue to maintain demonstrably false positions long after they’ve been proven so is beyond me, but every time you do it chips away more of your credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/35 "2008-11-12T20:32:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am still wondering how it will be the fault of the right if Obama gets assassinated, because they called him the messiah, but not the fault of the left, even though they called him [the messiah](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowxMcVTjTE). _Louis Farrakhan_ is the left, **Shodan**? Come on. I thought at least you were going to link to Oprah or something- she’s not “the left,” but it’d be less bizarre than suggesting Farrakhan represents the left. What a lame argument. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/36 "2008-11-12T20:43:19Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > No. When the right calls him the Messiah, they are mocking the left’s irrational adoration of him: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI) Nope. No such adoration exists. When the right calls him the Messiah, they’re saying, “kill him, he’s the Antichrist.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/37 "2008-11-12T20:45:23Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You can tell yourself that until you’re blue in the face, but both cases are demonstrably false. Why you continue to maintain demonstrably false positions long after they’ve been proven so is beyond me, but every time you do it chips away more of your credibility. Cite for anyone on the left seriously calling him the Messiah? I can produce plenty for people calling him the Antichrist. The idea that the left sees Obama as some kind of transcendent savior figure is pure, right wing mythology. It’s complete fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/38 "2008-11-12T20:46:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nope. No such adoration exists. When the right calls him the Messiah, they’re saying, “kill him, he’s the Antichrist.” You can take a horse to water, but I guess you can’t force him to drink (or click links, I guess) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/39 "2008-11-12T20:47:17Z")
Louis Farrakhan is a conservative, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/40 "2008-11-12T20:52:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > _Louis Farrakhan_ is the left, **Shodan**? Come on. I thought at least you were going to link to Oprah or something- she’s not “the left,” but it’d be less bizarre than suggesting Farrakhan represents the left. What a lame argument. I have no idea why right wingers try to identify Farrakhan with the left. He’s anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-gun, pro-death penalty, anti-tax, anti-welfare, anti-drug, fanatically religious and racist. He’s a rightie all the way down the line. I guess because he’s back, they think that makes him liberal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382.md?page=3)