# If Obama is assassinated, the right's use of "messiah" will be directly responsible **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382 "2008-11-12T18:05:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/41 "2008-11-12T21:36:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am still wondering how it will be the fault of the right if Obama gets assassinated, because they called him the messiah, but not the fault of the left, even though they called him the messiah. Oh **Shodan** , for shame. It was barely a month ago that you started [a Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10326441) about this right-wing scare meme that Farrakhan called Obama “the Messiah” in a speech last February. And I went to the trouble in that thread of looking up what Farrakhan actually said, and clarifying it for you. Here are the relevant parts of the [speech](http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_4427.shtml) from the “Final Call” (NOI) website: > [@](#): > > “Brothers and sisters, Barack Obama to me, is a herald of the Messiah. Barack Obama is like the trumpet that alerts you something new, something better is on the way,” the Muslim leader declared. […] > > Sen. Obama “is not the Messiah for sure, but anytime, he gives you a sign of uniting races, ethnic groups, ideologies, religions and makes people feel a sense of oneness, that’s not necessarily Satan’s work, that is I believe the work of God. […] > > "We must clean up our lives, clean up our communities. Young people, you are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why (Sen.) Barack (Obama) has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn’t care anything about. When the Messiah speaks, the young people will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.” I’m no admirer of Farrakhan, but if you bother to find out what he actually said instead of salivating over a few seconds’ clip on YouTube, it is crystal clear that he is **not** actually identifying Obama as the Messiah. He thinks that Obama has emerged as a “herald” of the Messiah, and that his success is a sign that “the Messiah is speaking”, but he is very definite that Obama himself is **not** the Messiah. After I did the work of researching and explaining this on the other thread, you stormed off [in a tantrum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10327507&postcount=50): > [@Shodan](#): > > I have basically given up on the election. Obama is going to win. The Blessed One is going to turn the White House beige. He will inherit a whole shit load of problems, and no doubt create a whole shit load more on his own. > > So one derives what pleasure one can from the debacle. I am going to make fun of those things I find amusing, and the worshipful reverence the Obamaniacs expect of their Chosen One is a big, bad, juicy target, and I intend to kick it until it stops amusing me or my toes get tired. > > All this huffy “how dare you!” is richly entertaining, in a fin du [sic] siecle kind of way. > > Expect it to continue, and get worse, for the next four years or so. Or, perhaps he will screw up badly enough that it will be less than that. In which case President Biden’s pasty white ass is the next target in the sights. And now you come in here trying to resurrect the same debunked ignorance and spread it around again, with no acknowledgement that you were shown to be wrong the first time. Honestly **Shodan** , I’m disappointed in you. You’re basically just trolling here. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/42 "2008-11-12T21:40:11Z")
Every Socrates needs his Thrasymachus. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/43 "2008-11-12T21:40:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I guess because he’s back, they think that makes him liberal. He’s back? When did he ever leave? Personally, I wish he would have stayed away. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/44 "2008-11-12T21:46:35Z")
If general criticisms of our president emboldens our enemies, why doesn’t pointed wingnuttery embolden the loons? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/45 "2008-11-12T21:54:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > He’s back? Geez, leave him alone. It was just a typo. He obviously meant “because he’s got back”. You know, like junk in the trunk. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/46 "2008-11-12T22:13:31Z")
Of course, if Obama is the Antichrist, [assassinating him won’t help much.](http://bible.cc/revelation/13-3.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/47 "2008-11-12T22:26:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m no admirer of Farrakhan, but if you bother to find out what he actually said instead of salivating over a few seconds’ clip on YouTube, it is crystal clear that he is **not** actually identifying Obama as the Messiah. So, saying that Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah is so radically different from saying that he is the Messiah? Given that you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about as regards the concept of the Messiah in Islam, I give rather less weight to your opinion than I might. [The Obamaessiah!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0drwfnGlF_E) > [@Chris Mathews](#): > > ["I’ve been following politics since I was about 5. I’ve never seen anything like this. This is bigger than Kennedy. [Obama] comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the New Testament.”](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/02/obama_the_messiah.html) > [@](#): > > in a moment of divine intervention, he saw me, clad in my red stop-sign of a dress, back-tracked ever so slightly in his procession, grabbed my hand, and gave that brilliant smile of his. I literally said out loud to the woman next to me who witnessed my good fate, “I’ll never wash this hand again.” _Der Spiegel_ in a headline to their cover story on Obama > [@](#): > > The Messiah Factor > [@](#): > > “Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama.” > > – Dinesh Sharma > [@](#): > > “He communicates God-like energy…” > > – Steve Davis (Charleston, SC) > [@](#): > > “We’re here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth.” > > – Oprah Winfrey > [@](#): > > He ventured forth to bring light to the world > The anointed one’s pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action - and a blessing to all his faithful followers [Cite](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece). I don;'t know why I am surprised - GD is supposed to be where witnessing goes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/48 "2008-11-12T22:27:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The idea that the left sees Obama as some kind of transcendent savior figure is pure, right wing mythology. It’s complete fiction. I don’t think that’s what the right means when they trot out the “Messiah” line. They mean that the left treats him with adulation of the “He’s going to fix everything”/“He makes me excited to be a Democrat”/“I’m in love with him” variety. In other words, they’re making fun of his more enthusiastic supporters for being so irrationally excited about an obviously (to them) unqualified person. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/49 "2008-11-12T22:31:07Z")
**Shodan** : The left calls Obama a messiah. My evidence is that Farrakhan called Obama the Messiah. **Kimstu** : No, Farrakhan didn’t do that, as I’ve already told you. **Shodan** : But other people did! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/50 "2008-11-12T22:35:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, saying that Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah is so radically different from saying that he is the Messiah? > > Given that you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about as regards the concept of the Messiah in Islam, I give rather less weight to your opinion than I might. > > [The Obamaessiah!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0drwfnGlF_E) > _Der Spiegel_ in a headline to their cover story on Obama [Cite](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece). > > I don;'t know why I am surprised - GD is supposed to be where witnessing goes. Farrakhan isn’t a Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/51 "2008-11-12T22:45:29Z")
The sky isn’t blue. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/52 "2008-11-12T22:57:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > **Shodan** : The left calls Obama a messiah. My evidence is that Farrakhan called Obama the Messiah. > **Kimstu** : No, Farrakhan didn’t do that, as I’ve already told you. > **Shodan** : But other people did! > > :dubious: Actually it ran more like this: \*\*The OP:\*\*People on the right will be responsible if Obama is assassinated, because they called him the messiah. **Non-worshippers of the Obamessiah** : It’s the left who is calling Obama the messaih. **Obama-worshippers** : No, they don’t. **Non-worshippers of the Obamessiah** : Sure they do. Here’s a shit load of examples. **Obama-worshippers** : No, they don’t. **Non-worshippers of the Obamessiah** : Sure they do. Farrakhan is on record saying that when Obama speaks, “absolutely the Messiah is speaking”. **Obama-worshippers** : No, they don’t. You’re troliing. **Non-worshippers of the Obamessiah** : Sure they do. Here’s a million more examples. **Obama-worshippers** : No, they don’t. No true Scotsman worships Obama as the messiah. SOP on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/53 "2008-11-12T22:58:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The sky isn’t blue. [The Nation of Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam) is considered heretical by Muslims, Sunni or Shi’a. I guess it’s like asking whether Mormons are Christians – they say they are, but practically all other self-ID’d Christians deny it. Protestants and Catholics can recognize each other as Christians, nowadays, but Mormons are still beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/54 "2008-11-12T23:02:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually it ran more like this… Your version of the thread is not inconsistent with the snippet I summarized. The point was that, however relevant your post might have been in response to the OP, you did not address **Kimstu** ’s post at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/55 "2008-11-12T23:29:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [The Nation of Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam) is considered heretical by Muslims, Sunni or Shi’a. > > I guess it’s like asking whether Mormons are Christians – they say they are, but practically all other self-ID’d Christians deny it. Protestants and Catholics can recognize each other as Christians, nowadays, but Mormons are still beyond the pale. The difference is even more radical than LDS. It’s more like the equivalent of Christian Identity. In any case, NOI is not part of the religion of Islam. NOI has a separate theology, a separate prophet. They don’t practice the Pillars and they’re not allowed into Mecca. Farrakhan is not a Muslim. That’s a fact. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/56 "2008-11-13T00:00:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You’re basically just trolling here. However, it is still a violation of the rules to point out trolling outside of the **BBQ Pit** and especially in **Great Debates**. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/57 "2008-11-13T00:06:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In any case, NOI is not part of the religion of Islam. NOI has a separate theology, a separate prophet. They don’t practice the Pillars and they’re not allowed into Mecca. Didn’t Malcom X make his hajj? (I know he did in the movies.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/58 "2008-11-13T00:09:47Z")
Oops, I should have known that, but overlooked it. Sorry **tom** , sorry **Shodan**. > [@Shodan](#): > > So, saying that Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah is so radically different from saying that he is the Messiah? But Farrakhan **didn’t** say that “Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah”. He said that Obama is definitely **not** the Messiah. > [@Shodan](#): > > Given that you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about as regards the concept of the Messiah in Islam, I give rather less weight to your opinion than I might. :dubious: And you feel that your own understanding of Islam and its soteriological doctrines is better? You can’t even be bothered to find out the difference between Nation of Islam and Islam proper, or to read the actual statements of a speaker that clearly contradict your claims about what he’s saying. Why should anyone give any weight to **your** opinion on this issue? You can’t even get your facts right. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/59 "2008-11-13T00:17:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Farrakhan is on record saying that when Obama speaks, “absolutely the Messiah is speaking”. No, he isn’t. Re-read what he actually said: > [@Farrakhan](#): > > “When the Messiah speaks, the young people will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.” That is, the involvement of the young people is a sign that “the Messiah is speaking”. Not a word there about **Obama himself** being “the Messiah who is speaking”. It’s like saying, for example, “we are seeing the hand of God in the success of Obama’s campaign”. Nobody with any sense would think that such a phrase was meant to imply that Obama himself is actually God. Face it, you were careless in finding out the complete facts about the Farrakhan speech, you forgot or ignored the facts I found out for you about it earlier, and now you’re trying to wriggle out of having got it wrong. It’s not working. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382/60 "2008-11-13T00:21:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Didn’t Malcom X make his hajj? (I know he did in the movies.) He made his hajj only after he had left the NOI and become a Sunni. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-obama-is-assassinated-the-rights-use-of-messiah-will-be-directly-responsible/472382.md?page=4)