# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/1 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")
Amirite? Because that would be the gun rights stance. How about we have armed guards or police paid to go out on every fire call? Makes just about as much sense as doing it in schools. Gun rights advocates don’t want to admit GUNS ARE the problem. Good luck trying to convince the families of these firefighters that their loved ones death is just the price one pays for the right to own guns. Fcuk that. Story here > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/?err_code=404&err_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Fmobileweb%2F2012%2F12%2F24%2Ffirefighters-shot-webster-fire_n_2358822.html%3F1356359675%26ncid%3Dmobile1%26prefTab%3DToday)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/2 "2012-12-24T16:39:46Z")
Yup, America needs more guns, not less. The gun fetishists will be along to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/3 "2012-12-24T16:59:11Z")
With 300 million guns floating around out there, there is just no way to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics (or legally sane sociopaths, for that matter). And there is no way to guard everyone in every potentially vulnerable situation. Because the past ten days have demonstrated that there is no safe place, in a world of gun owners. Confiscation is really the only answer, isn’t it? I’ve never even thought that before, but I just don’t see any other answer. ---
**Author:** ![bot3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@bot3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bot3)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/4 "2012-12-24T17:00:15Z")
I’m not a big gun advocate, neither am I against guns. Regardless, until the social climate and mores changes the violence won’t. People need to take responsibility for one’s action. Today’s youth have no respect for convention, law or order. It’s an entitlement mindset society that is the problem. Please, don’t quote me that old bit about Socrates complaining about the youth way back then. That’s old and worn-out, and is not the same. In every generation and era there is a faction, be it youth, or bandits or whatever, that were a plague on society. But today it’s not a faction of society or a group of individuals that is wasting our sense of morals. It’s all of society that is crumbing around us. It’s not bad enough that nature and life by itself hands us defeats and challenges that we must face and surmont. Nowadays its a matter of blaming it on someone else be it Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives or Liberals or teachers or business or whatever seems handy at the time. As much as I don’t like guns (and yes I know how to use them) banning guns will not solve the problem any more than arming every single citizen in the world. Again as much as I dislike Hillery Clinton, I have to agree with her quote that it takes a village to bring up children. Time was that if a teacher reprimanded a child, the parents were there to backup the teacher. Not today. To get back on point. Firefighters carry guns? That’s just plain stupid. They have enough problems fighting fires. And just imagine a firefighter entering a fire with live ammo. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/5 "2012-12-24T17:11:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > With 300 million guns floating around out there, there is just no way to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics (or legally sane sociopaths, for that matter). And there is no way to guard everyone in every potentially vulnerable situation. Because the past ten days have demonstrated that there is no safe place, in a world of gun owners. > > Confiscation is really the only answer, isn’t it? I’ve never even thought that before, but I just don’t see any other answer. Not possible. Even if there weren’t a politically powerful minority of people willing to throw whatever level of screaming shit fit necessary to prevent it, not possible. Too many. Too damned many. The only way is the long, slow, tedious slog of cultural change. We have to change who we are, how we think, the whole nine yards. I wish I had a better answer, or even hope that there is one, but no, I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/6 "2012-12-24T17:21:12Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > Again as much as I dislike Hillery Clinton, I have to agree with her quote that it takes a village to bring up children. That’s part of the problem - far too many parents take the attitude that it takes a village, and then let the village raise their kids. But yeah, it would help if people would start being responsible for themselves instead of expecting someone, anyone else to do so. Would solve a lot more problems than gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/7 "2012-12-24T17:24:00Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > That’s old and worn-out, and is not the same. And the Socrates quote is made up. Unfortunately yours seems to be real. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/8 "2012-12-24T17:28:26Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > That’s old and worn-out, and is not the same. Bullshit. It may be old and worn-out, but it doesn’t make it any less true. Saying “NOW, it’s different and actually true” doesn’t mean a damned thing. We were a hell of a lot more worried about inner city youth in the 80s than we are now. Where did all those fears go, eh? Society cleaned up just enough for them not to be a problem but suddenly it’s the drone-like, detached suburban kids who are a problem now? Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/9 "2012-12-24T17:33:16Z")
Meh. Firefighters can have guns on their trucks if need be. Wouldn’t bother me. They’ve got plenty of time to practice. As for armed guards in schools, I’m for that, too. Doesn’t have to be every school. And since 1/3 of schools already do, it’s not like it’s an out-of-the-mainstream idea. The problem with the NRA’s response is that it’s only about armed guards in schools, and nothing else. That doesn’t make it nonsense, just incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/10 "2012-12-24T17:34:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The problem with the NRA’s response is that it’s only about armed guards in schools, and nothing else. That doesn’t make it nonsense, just incomplete. Right. In Maslow’s Law as interpreted by the NRA, we can only be safe when absolutely everyone is armed. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/11 "2012-12-24T17:39:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Meh. Firefighters can have guns on their trucks if need be. Wouldn’t bother me. They’ve got plenty of time to practice. So they can fire back after they’ve been shot dead? Or what? They routinely empty clips into burning buildings and surrounding neighborhoods "just in case? They arrive on scene in armored personnel carriers with armor and M-16’s? You basically have proposed that fire fighters be turned into SWAT teams. That’s nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/12 "2012-12-24T17:54:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So they can fire back after they’ve been shot dead? Uhm, no. > [@](#): > > Or what? They routinely empty clips into burning buildings and surrounding neighborhoods "just in case? No again. > [@](#): > > They arrive on scene in armored personnel carriers with armor and M-16’s? That’s a hat trick no. > [@](#): > > You basically have proposed that fire fighters be turned into SWAT teams. No, I didn’t. > [@](#): > > That’s nonsensical. See above. Care to guess some more? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/13 "2012-12-24T18:05:55Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Right. In Maslow’s Law as interpreted by the NRA, we can only be safe when absolutely everyone is armed. Hey! It worked for Tombstone, AZ, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/14 "2012-12-24T18:19:00Z")
It might be noted that in Sunnyvale, CA (often cited as one of the best run cities around here) every cop is also a firefighter, and vice versa. [From their website:](http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/Departments/PublicSafety/DPSDivisions/Fire.aspx) > [@](#): > > One of the advantages of the Public Safety system, where personnel are cross-trained as both police officers and fire fighters, is the inter changeability of staff and resources. At every emergency scene there is a need for Fire, EMS, and Police resources… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/15 "2012-12-24T18:21:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Confiscation is really the only answer, isn’t it? I’ve never even thought that before, but I just don’t see any other answer. The other alternative is that you just accept the consequences. . .that every now and again, crazy people are going to shoot people, and just try to minimize them as much as you can. That’s what we’ve been largely doing so far, based on the national belief that the ownership of guns is a fundamental enough right or a good enough thing to have that that counterbalances the deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/16 "2012-12-24T18:22:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It might be noted that in Sunnyvale, CA (often cited as one of the best run cities around here) every cop is also a firefighter, and vice versa. [From their website:](http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/Departments/PublicSafety/DPSDivisions/Fire.aspx) I wonder what the insurance costs are for someone is both a fireman _and_ a policeman? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/17 "2012-12-24T18:23:13Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Hey! It worked for Tombstone, AZ, didn’t it? Tombstone had pretty strict gun control laws. Stricter then than they do now, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/18 "2012-12-24T18:30:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Care to guess some more? You think having guns available on a firetruck would magically prevent firefighters from being shot when they arrive on scene? You’re simply a bonehead? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/19 "2012-12-24T18:32:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Meh. Firefighters can have guns on their trucks if need be. Wouldn’t bother me. They’ve got plenty of time to practice. > > As for armed guards in schools, I’m for that, too. Doesn’t have to be every school. And since 1/3 of schools already do, it’s not like it’s an out-of-the-mainstream idea. > > The problem with the NRA’s response is that it’s only about armed guards in schools, and nothing else. That doesn’t make it nonsense, just incomplete. One third of schools have an armed policeman who has responsibilities in the building. As has been mentioned in several of these threads, he’s often assigned to multiple campuses, and even when he is assigned to only one, he has many responsibilities, none of which are serving as an armed guard, and many of which take him off campus for much of the time. It’s not the same at all as what the NRA is proposing. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/20 "2012-12-24T18:37:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The other alternative is that you just accept the consequences. . .that every now and again, crazy people are going to shoot people, and just try to minimize them as much as you can. That’s what we’ve been largely doing so far, **based on the national belief that the ownership of guns is a fundamental enough right or a good enough thing to have that that counterbalances the deaths.** Well, I guess I am an aberration then, because that sounds like crazy talk to me. And I hardly think [49% in support of gun rights and 45% for gun control](http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/transparency.jpeg) points to a nation that thinks guns are a fundamental right, because IMO guns aren’t a right they are a luxury which we are seeing more and more we can’t afford at the cost of innocent lives. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=2)