# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/181 "2012-12-28T18:18:55Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Why should I assume that someone who’s trying to break down my bedroom door at 2 AM is there for money? This happens to you? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/182 "2012-12-28T19:02:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **I don’t own anything worth killing for. I never will.** > > If you need to promote fear in order to advance your agenda, your agenda is fucked up, sick and twisted. What about your very life? And as to the second part, how is anything I said untrue or “promoting fear”? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/183 "2012-12-28T19:08:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This happens to you? Well it _might_ happen because… because FEAR! Fear of a highly unlikely event that is promoted by the gun industry. And also because it’s so pathetically easy for criminals to get their hands on guns, thanks to lax regulations promoted by national organizations funded by gun companies in order to maximize profits. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/184 "2012-12-28T19:09:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This happens to you? Not yet, thank God. And with any luck it will never happen to me. But make no mistake, it DOES happen to some women. And the difference between those women and me is merely that they are unluckier. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/185 "2012-12-28T19:12:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well it _might_ happen because… because FEAR! Fear of a highly unlikely event that is promoted by the gun industry. You mean like the fear that your child’s school will be shot up by a deranged maniac? The gun industry is promoting that? If gun control is reasonable to propose on the basis that mass shootings sometimes occur, then gun ownership proposed on the basis that the Boogeyman is in fact real and sometimes DOES show up at your house is also reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/186 "2012-12-28T19:25:09Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Not yet, thank God. And with any luck it will never happen to me. But make no mistake, it DOES happen to some women. And the difference between those women and me is merely that they are unluckier. And how often do you suppose it happens that women get their bedroom doors kicked in in the middle of the night and get assulted? Does this happen to people you know? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/187 "2012-12-28T19:37:55Z")
In my 51 years, I’ve never been in a situation where I needed a gun. On the other hand, I’ve never had my house burn down either. Shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/188 "2012-12-28T19:44:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And how often do you suppose it happens that women get their bedroom doors kicked in in the middle of the night and get assulted? Does this happen to people you know? I’ve always felt a woman was safer with a big dog and a cell phone than with a gun. Assuming they have a viable 911 system where she lives that is. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/189 "2012-12-28T19:57:42Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Not yet, thank God. And with any luck it will never happen to me. But make no mistake, it DOES happen to some women. And the difference between those women and me is merely that they are unluckier. And a meteorite may fall out of the sky and bonk me in the head but I don’t walk around wearing a hard hat. I know a lot of people that are frantically stocking up on semi-automatic and automatic ammunition these days. ( Why yes, I do live in rural Texas. Why do you ask?) Doesn’t make me feel a lick safer or a drop more secure. And for the record, we own a shotgun and a .22 because we sometimes have to kill things down here on the farm. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/190 "2012-12-28T20:07:19Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > You mean like the fear that your child’s school will be shot up by a deranged maniac? The gun industry is promoting that? > > If gun control is reasonable to propose on the basis that mass shootings sometimes occur, then gun ownership proposed on the basis that the Boogeyman is in fact real and sometimes DOES show up at your house is also reasonable. So let me get this clear: You need free and easy access to guns, because deranged lunatics have free and easy access to guns, and you need to protect yourself against them. How about if you remove the proximate cause, and don’t let deranged lunatics have free and easy access to guns in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/191 "2012-12-28T20:32:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So let me get this clear: > > You need free and easy access to guns, because deranged lunatics have free and easy access to guns, and you need to protect yourself against them. > > How about if you remove the proximate cause, and don’t let deranged lunatics have free and easy access to guns in the first place. Will that help with their free and easy access to knives, baseball bats, and tire irons? Will it change the fact that the average male can beat the shit out of the average female even absent a weapon? And where was I demanding “free and easy access” to guns? I AM demanding that self-defense be seen as a legitimate reason to own one, but that is not the same as demanding free and easy access to them. (Now if you want to talk about getting rid of men, I’m listening. There’s no question whatsoever that that would in fact be the very best solution to America’s problem with violence, as nearly all violent crime is committed by males. But I don’t think that approach is going to be politically feasible, even if it is absolutely the very best long-term solution.) ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/192 "2012-12-28T20:34:42Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > In my 51 years, I’ve never been in a situation where I needed a gun. On the other hand, I’ve never had my house burn down either. Shit happens. Thank you, you summed it up perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/193 "2012-12-28T20:40:54Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > And where was I demanding “free and easy access” to guns? I AM demanding that self-defense be seen as a legitimate reason to own one, but that is not the same as demanding free and easy access to them. Thank you for your support of gun control. > [@artemis](#): > > (Now if you want to talk about getting rid of men, I’m listening. There’s no question whatsoever that that would in fact be the very best solution to America’s problem with violence, as nearly all violent crime is committed by males. But I don’t think that approach is going to be politically feasible, even if it is absolutely the very best long-term solution.) Oooookay then. Thank you for your logical thoughts. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/194 "2012-12-28T20:42:24Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Thank you, you summed it up perfectly. I don’t think you got the point, unless you also go to bed with a fireman’s outfit and a fire extinguisher next to your bed. BTW, which do you tink is more likely-your house catching fire, or a robber breaking down your bedroom door intending to do you harm? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/195 "2012-12-28T20:52:12Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Funny, that’s what I would have said about people who insist we won’t be safe until we completely ban guns. You’d be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/196 "2012-12-28T20:59:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think you got the point, unless you also go to bed with a fireman’s outfit and a fire extinguisher next to your bed. BTW, which do you tink is more likely-your house catching fire, or a robber breaking down your bedroom door intending to do you harm? Oh, a fire, most certainly. Which is why I DO have working fire extinguishers in my home, as well as smoke detectors (which get their batteries faithfully replaced on a regular schedule) and I’ve rigged up a rope tied to my bedstand which will allow me to safely rapell from my bedroom window down to the patio should I need to get away from a fire. Fires are rare, but we take precautions against them. If you’re not living a criminal lifestyle, serious attacks are even more rare, but they DO happen on occasion. So why not take precautions against them? For various reasons, I’ve chosen a firearm as one of those precautions. I’m not demanding that anyone else do so, but I am insisting that others respect that choice. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/197 "2012-12-28T21:10:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thank you for your support of gun control. If you’d read any of my posts in the other gun control thread we’ve had popping up recently, you’d know I support rational gun control. That is NOT the same thing as the “run in circles, scream and shout” Assault Weapons Ban or similar such nonsense, or gun control of the “let ban ALL the guns!” approach. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > TOooookay then. Thank you for your logical thoughts. Have a nice day. You may laugh (because I was admittedly writing in a snarky fashion), but seriously consider what I said. Why DON’T we consider the problem to be a “young man problem” instead of a “gun problem”? Most violent crime is committed by males between the ages of 12 and 30, after all, and virtually none is committed by females (and the little that is is generally child abuse). While we can’t institute “male control” as in some dystopian feminist science fiction novel, we could seriously ask ourselves why so many young men are turning toward violence. It’s not all testosterone and stupidity; males are males everywhere, but crime levels fluctuate wildly between different societies and different times. It’s cultural. And we know some of the causes: “honor culture” which demands insults be revenged rather than ignored, glorification of violence as the best way to solve problems, need for a father figure leading young males to join gangs, depression and feelings of alienation from the larger society in many of our young people. Those are issues we can and should do a much better job of addressing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/198 "2012-12-28T21:21:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > . . . > > How about if you remove the proximate cause, and don’t let deranged lunatics have free and easy access to guns in the first place. How are you going to do that? Seriously. It sounds simple, but come up with a plan to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/199 "2012-12-28T21:33:16Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Small penises. > [@Lumpy](#): > > The gun thread equivalent of Godwin’s Law. What about all the women promoting guns for self-defense? Are they all suffering from penis envy? > [@madmonk28](#): > > The are also deeply insecure and delusional. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Given that the majority of women could be beaten into submission and raped by the majority of men, I can’t say that their insecurity is delusional. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Sad little people going through life scared. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Funny, that’s what I would have said about people who insist we won’t be safe until we completely ban guns. > [@madmonk28](#): > > You’d be wrong. Funny, that’s what I’ve been saying about dismissing the pro-gun side as mentally ill. You do know I can mirror-image every single accusation against the other side that you can put forward, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/200 "2012-12-28T21:35:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > How are you going to do that? Seriously. It sounds simple, but come up with a plan to do just that. Beyond “let’s institute restrictive measures and worry later about how to enforce them”, that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=11)