# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/21 "2012-12-24T18:42:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You think having guns available on a firetruck would magically prevent firefighters from being shot when they arrive on scene? I’m trying to envision a situation where a fire company would come into a scene like a SWAT team, or SeaBees, and fight their way to the blaze, or post snipers atop the trucks while the hose-draggers get the job done… and I just can’t make it work. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/22 "2012-12-24T18:55:41Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > I’m trying to envision a situation where a fire company would come into a scene like a SWAT team, or SeaBees, and fight their way to the blaze Medical assists on not quite controlled crime scenes. A few local engine companies around here over the years develop reps for not caring to wait for PD to secure crime scenes before rolling in. On several occasions, we found ourselves holding back a block away waiting for PD and along comes fire engine charging to the rescue. 3 minutes later we hear on the radio, “Scene secure per Engine 5”. Roll in and find 2 firemen sitting on the guy who had just stabbed someone and the third starting treatment on the victim. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/23 "2012-12-24T18:58:52Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > Today’s youth have no respect for convention, law or order. > [@](#): > > Please, don’t quote me that old bit about Socrates complaining about the youth way back then. That’s old and worn-out, and is not the same. In every generation and era there is a faction, be it youth, or bandits or whatever, that were a plague on society. But today it’s not a faction of society or a group of individuals that is wasting our sense of morals. It’s all of society that is crumbing around us. Good to know that even in a thread like this, there’s an element of humor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/24 "2012-12-24T19:03:12Z")
Wasn’t Socrates. It was **Starkertes**. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/25 "2012-12-24T19:03:58Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > Today’s youth have no respect for convention, law or order. :rolleyes: Now why does that sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/26 "2012-12-24T19:04:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The other alternative is that you just accept the consequences. . .that every now and again, crazy people are going to shoot people, and just try to minimize them as much as you can. That’s what we’ve been largely doing so far Absent the ‘trying to minimize them’ part, of course. > [@](#): > > based on the national belief that the ownership of guns is a fundamental enough right or a good enough thing to have that that counterbalances the deaths. Put me in the “that’s crazy talk” camp. And whether or not it’s a short-term reaction to Sandy Hook that will fade away in a few weeks, I doubt that there’s such a national belief right now. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/27 "2012-12-24T19:04:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Confiscation is really the only answer, isn’t it? I’ve never even thought that before, but I just don’t see any other answer. Yeah, that would work. Because when we banned, outlawed and confiscated drugs they all disappeared, right? No more gang violence and ODs, right? The problem is criminals. Honest citizens turning in guns will not stop criminals from getting and using them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/28 "2012-12-24T19:08:40Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > Please, don’t quote me that old bit about Socrates complaining about the youth way back then. That’s old . . . [Not really; dates from the 1960s.](http://quotationsbook.com/quote/44998/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/29 "2012-12-24T19:09:36Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > One third of schools have an armed policeman who has responsibilities in the building. As has been mentioned in several of these threads, he’s often assigned to multiple campuses, and even when he is assigned to only one, he has many responsibilities, none of which are serving as an armed guard, So, why are they armed? > [@](#): > > and many of which take him off campus for much of the time. It’s not the same at all as what the NRA is proposing. It only differs in degree. There is a lot of ridicule on this board about the very idea of having armed guards in schools. It’s nothing new, and there is an existing federal program to assist this. One that [Clinton beefed up after the Columbine shooting.](http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323) [Cops in Schools.](http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/default.asp?Item=54) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/30 "2012-12-24T19:09:44Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > The problem is criminals. Honest citizens turning in guns will not stop criminals from getting and using them. It does in many other countries, notably Japan and the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/31 "2012-12-24T19:10:27Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Yeah, that would work. Because when we banned, outlawed and confiscated drugs they all disappeared, right? No more gang violence and ODs, right? > > The problem is criminals. Honest citizens turning in guns will not stop criminals from getting and using them. It will certainly stop criminals from stealing them from said honest persons-you can’t steal what ain’t there. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/32 "2012-12-24T19:17:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It does in many other countries, notably Japan and the UK. Different situation. Country size and other things of course but the biggest difference is the amount of gun saturation time. Between stockpiles, the internet and just huge amount of unregistered guns here you just can’t put that genie back in the bottle. In addition, criminals are ‘spoiled’ - they will import them (as they do drugs) if confiscated. I would venture to guess that hundreds of guns _are_ confiscated in this country every day. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/33 "2012-12-24T19:21:19Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Yeah, that would work. Because when we banned, outlawed and confiscated drugs they all disappeared, right? No more gang violence and ODs, right? Whatever the psychological effects of being deprived of one’s guns might be, I doubt anyone will go through physical withdrawal. And it’ll be a damned sight harder to smuggle in 100 guns than 100 doses of heroin. And if we want to go back further, it’ll be a damned sight harder to build 100 guns in a machine shop than to make 100 shots of gin in one’s bathtub. > [@](#): > > The problem is criminals. Honest citizens turning in guns will not stop criminals from getting and using them. There’s probably a smaller semi-permanent criminal class now than there was at any time since before Prohibition. Adam Lanza wasn’t a criminal. Shooters like this rarely are. The guys who shoot their wives, girlfriends, and exes are rarely criminals, outside of minor brushes with the law. There are certainly people we can identify who shouldn’t be allowed access to guns, and we should do that. But that’s just a small fraction of the problem. The problem is that you can’t tell who will be the next nutcase to open fire, but that that nutcase will in all likelihood be able to acquire an essentially military level of firepower. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/34 "2012-12-24T19:21:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It will certainly stop criminals from stealing them from said honest persons-you can’t steal what ain’t there. _If_ stolen guns are the #1 way criminals get them it’s only because that happens to be the most convenient way _at the time_. Remove them from homes and criminals will just move on to the next most convenient way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/35 "2012-12-24T19:25:26Z")
Which would be what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/36 "2012-12-24T19:27:16Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Yeah, that would work. Because when we banned, outlawed and confiscated drugs they all disappeared, right? No more gang violence and ODs, right? > > The problem is criminals. Honest citizens turning in guns will not stop criminals from getting and using them. I don’t know that you can make a useful comparison between the War on Drugs (or Prohibition, before that) to gun control. It takes sophisticated machinery and specialized talent to make a gun. Most drugs can be fairly easily cooked up in a simple kitchen lab or closet grow set up. If there were no legitimate gun market, the legitimate gun manufacturers (aside from a few kept alive by government contracts) would close their door, or turn to some other kind of manufacturing, and it seems highly unlikely that they’d be replaced by some sort of illicit gun factories. There’s still the issue of all the millions of guns that are already out there, but it’s still a finite number - with the stream of new guns shut off (or at least greatly reduced - smuggling would still be an issue) eventually, the supply of existing guns will dry up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/37 "2012-12-24T19:28:49Z")
I really don’t want to live in a place where everyone has a gun and at any time, I could be expected to engage in a firefight against some bad guy. The NRA seems to think that society in Mad Max movies or other fictitious post-apocalyptic worlds is the ideal. I happen to disagree. I kind of feel the same way about this future with everyone packing heat as I do with the land of Libertaria: In theory, it might be a grand place but the shortcomings of humanity make it more likely to have more problems than less. I don’t trust that everyone will always make the logical decision “gee, everyone has guns so I probably shouldn’t shoot,” because not everyone is rational. I also don’t see a crowded city block filled with sharp-shooting experts like in zombie movies where they never miss the forehead and never hit a member of their group. I see a bunch of people with shooting skills that range from decent to even sides of barns are safe, and all of them shooting at once… At the backfiring car. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/38 "2012-12-24T19:30:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And it’ll be a damned sight harder to smuggle in 100 guns than 100 doses of heroin. > > And if we want to go back further, it’ll be a damned sight harder to build 100 guns in a machine shop than to make 100 shots of gin in one’s bathtub. 1 dose of heroin will last one day. 1 gun could last a criminal for years. Prohibition produced crime of a previously unheard of level. It’s been said it made Capone. I think you are underestimating criminal resourcefulness. I agree it’s a problem. I posted else where on this board that if magically disappearing all the existing guns would ensure no more gun deaths I would gladly give mine up. But running out and confiscating all the registered guns just won’t make a dent in the problem of crazies killing children. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/39 "2012-12-24T19:31:46Z")
Murder is illegal but people still kill. Therefore we should decriminalize murder, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/40 "2012-12-24T19:32:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Which would be what, exactly? Same place we get drugs, bring them in from other countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=3)