# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/101 "2012-12-25T17:34:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That would be because guns are NOT the problem and never have been. People wanting to kill other people is the problem… If someone wanted to kill you, and pressing Ctrl-Alt-E on the keyboard would do it, what do you think your life expectancy would be? In between that and strangling you with bare hands is every other method of homicide. Guns are way, way, at the Ctrl-Alt-E end, and that ease, extreme power with minimal skill and both physical and emotional distance make guns a part of the problem. Primly declaring that homicidal feelings are the entire problem is gun-humping nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/102 "2012-12-25T19:03:30Z")
Americans are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/103 "2012-12-25T19:13:02Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > Americans are idiots. It’s not an exclusive club. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/104 "2012-12-25T19:13:42Z")
It is on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/105 "2012-12-25T19:20:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That would be because guns are NOT the problem and never have been. People wanting to kill other people is the problem, and in today’s society, that’s compounded with a desire to see themselves all over the media. HAve y’all considered the possibility that you _both_ are right? The desire to kill each other is a raging fire in this country-guns are just an extremely effective accelerant. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/106 "2012-12-25T19:32:20Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Well there was the Fort Hood shooting (in an area where the soldiers were unarmed). Outside of combat or the range soldiers are always unarmed. Well often they have weapons but never ammo. And since the terrorist that shot them was in the Army he knew that very well. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/107 "2012-12-25T19:41:58Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > If someone wanted to kill you, and pressing Ctrl-Alt-E on the keyboard would do it, what do you think your life expectancy would be? > > In between that and strangling you with bare hands is every other method of homicide. Guns are way, way, at the Ctrl-Alt-E end, and that ease, extreme power with minimal skill and both physical and emotional distance make guns a part of the problem. Primly declaring that homicidal feelings are the entire problem is gun-humping nonsense. Yeah, I’d just like to confirm that Ctrl-Alt-E doesn’t actually work. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/108 "2012-12-25T20:14:41Z")
Did you specify a target? Lot of people dropped dead today, so maybe its your fault! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/109 "2012-12-25T21:41:12Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Criminals, sociopaths and psychotics already have all the guns they need. More guns literally couldn’t make things any worse- maybe it really is worth a try. You never hear of any of these shooters deciding to shoot up a police station; probably because they might get one, two or maybe if they’re lucky three cops before being turned into swiss cheese. Maybe if it wasn’t a given that any random crowd of people are probably helpless fish in a barrel, these cowards wouldn’t decide to go people hunting. The attack on the reeking-of-estrogen Fort Hood has already been mentioned, but I’d like to add that there was an armed guard at Columbine too. Didn’t seem to prevent a bunch of kids from being shot. I think arming everyone might stop the occasional shooter, but there are very few precedents. On the whole I doubt it would solve doodly-squat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/110 "2012-12-25T21:44:38Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I think arming everyone might stop the occasional shooter, but there are very few precedents. On the whole I doubt it would solve doodly-squat. It might put a dent in the unemployment problem-give them guns and and put them in the schools to protect the children. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/111 "2012-12-25T21:57:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It might put a dent in the unemployment problem-give them guns and and put them in the schools to protect the children. I dunno. I am not going to say never put a guard in a school. OTOH I really hate the NRA’s proposal. Put a guard in every school, with the help of _NRA volunteers_. Um, no thanks, I don’t want Unka Bubba with his gun sitting in his pickup with the confederate flag bumper sticker spitting chaw and watching the high school girls all day. Doesn’t sound very bright to me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/112 "2012-12-25T22:40:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I dunno. I am not going to say never put a guard in a school. OTOH I really hate the NRA’s proposal. Put a guard in every school, with the help of _NRA volunteers_. Um, no thanks, I don’t want Unka Bubba with his gun sitting in his pickup with the confederate flag bumper sticker spitting chaw and watching the high school girls all day. Doesn’t sound very bright to me. I’ve been in the security biz off and on for 30 years…and I wouldn’t trust more than 20% of the security guards out there to safeguard our schools. The U.S. took a profession honored for centuries and turned into a joke, with companies hiring the lowest common denominator for minimum wage and little to no benefits to do just enough to keep insurance premiums down. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/113 "2012-12-25T23:46:20Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > I thought you were going to suggest that we begin arming obstetricians. There are obstetricians without arms out there? That must be awkward - talk about getting a lot of face time with your doctor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/114 "2012-12-26T00:00:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve been in the security biz off and on for 30 years…and I wouldn’t trust more than 20% of the security guards out there to safeguard our schools. The security guard in my son’s school is nice, but I would not want him packing heat. There’s a reason we nicknamed him Barney Fife. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/115 "2012-12-26T05:16:55Z")
It’s disingenuous to say/imply/insinuate/nudge someone into thinking that’s your position/etc. that having a Public Safety Department in which all officers are trained as both police officers and firefighters is clearly not the same thing as arming firefighters. In the former case, the officers are deployed either as firefighters or as police officers for the duration of their shift and rotate to the other function at the scheduled date/time. In the latter case, a firefighter is given a weapon to use. Hopefully one can see why that’s not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/116 "2012-12-26T05:36:01Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The security guard in my son’s school is nice, but I would not want him packing heat. There’s a reason we nicknamed him Barney Fife. Because he’s such a badass that if you tangle with him, they may bury you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/117 "2012-12-26T05:40:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I… a firefighter is given a weapon to use. Hopefully one can see why that’s not a good idea. “…where this four alarm fire has been blazing for hours, as firefighters have used an estimated 15,000 rounds of ammunition to no effect. Back to you at the Action Desk, Kimberly…” ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/118 "2012-12-26T05:41:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve been in the security biz off and on for 30 years…and I wouldn’t trust more than 20% of the security guards out there to safeguard our schools. The U.S. took a profession honored for centuries and turned into a joke, with companies hiring the lowest common denominator for minimum wage and little to no benefits to do just enough to keep insurance premiums down. Even if the armed security guards in the schools were competent and well-trained, I don’t think it would necessarily help. Again, there was an armed guard at Columbine and it didn’t help. The kind of crazies we are dealing with usually shoot themselves before anyone can stop them. If someone gets a gun into a school and whips it out in some crowded area he could unload 100 rounds, plus one into his own brain, before the guard could even get to the scene. Not that I know what to do about crazy gun violence. A police state doesn’t seem too attractive. Taking everyone’s guns away a la Britain or Australia doesn’t seem practical or even possible IMHO. You could ban assault weapons and big magazines, but that still leaves a lot of ability to blow people away in the hands of maniacs. Now they’re shooting firefighters… wonderful :rolleyes: Stricter background check policies covering All gun sales might mitigate the situation to some degree, but that’s all I really got. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/119 "2012-12-26T08:15:52Z")
Right. And if you have one armed guard at a school, all the nutter has to do is shoot the guard first and then the school no longer has an armed guard. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/120 "2012-12-26T08:18:38Z")
DRAT! I meant to say: > [@Monty](#): > > It’s disingenuous to say/imply/insinuate/nudge someone into thinking that’s your position/etc. that having a Public Safety Department in which all officers are trained as both police officers and firefighters is the same thing as arming firefighters. In the former case, the officers are deployed either as firefighters or as police officers for the duration of their shift and rotate to the other function at the scheduled date/time. In the latter case, a firefighter is given a weapon to use. Hopefully one can see why that’s not a good idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=7)