# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/121 "2012-12-26T18:20:26Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The attack on the reeking-of-estrogen Fort Hood has already been mentioned, but I’d like to add that there was an armed guard at Columbine too. Didn’t seem to prevent a bunch of kids from being shot. > > I think arming everyone might stop the occasional shooter, but there are very few precedents. On the whole I doubt it would solve doodly-squat. What the hell are you talking about with regards to Fort Hood? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/122 "2012-12-26T18:30:08Z")
Probably referencing the lame-ass meme about not enough men in schools. Agree, in the sense that I don’t want kids to see teaching as a mainly female pursuit. Even as I think that, as a very rough rule of dumb, women are better at it. But I’m also coming around to the notion that we guys ought to just bow out and hand the power over to the women just generally. Kind of a universal declaration of Yes, Dear. We’ve been screwing things up for thousands of years, they can’t do any worse. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/123 "2012-12-26T19:26:19Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What the hell are you talking about with regards to Fort Hood? I believe he was referring to the fact that the soldiers were unarmed, and hence not comparable to my hypothetical about a shooter taking on a police precinct. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/124 "2012-12-26T19:30:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Criminals, sociopaths and psychotics already have all the guns they need. More guns literally couldn’t make things any worse- maybe it really is worth a try. You never hear of any of these shooters deciding to shoot up a police station… [Hell](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/police-station-shooting-southfield-michigan-shootout_n_2116162.html) [yes](http://www.freep.com/article/20110128/NEWS01/110128009/Watch-video-released-by-Detroit-police-showing-police-station-gun-battle) [you](http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/region/johnstown-man-charged-with-shooting-at-police-station-653222/) [do](http://www.mcall.com/news/all-sollmanstories,0,7034279.storygallery). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/125 "2012-12-26T21:36:29Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > [Hell](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/police-station-shooting-southfield-michigan-shootout_n_2116162.html) [yes](http://www.freep.com/article/20110128/NEWS01/110128009/Watch-video-released-by-Detroit-police-showing-police-station-gun-battle) [you](http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/region/johnstown-man-charged-with-shooting-at-police-station-653222/) [do](http://www.mcall.com/news/all-sollmanstories,0,7034279.storygallery). I stand corrected, although one of those was an accident. But I wonder why these don’t get more play in the national media. Maybe because “nut thinks he can take on cops, gets perforated” isn’t as newsworthy as “gunman slays helpless victims”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/126 "2012-12-26T21:40:23Z")
Yeah, kids are just short grubby people with poor hygiene. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/127 "2012-12-26T21:44:04Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I wonder why these don’t get more play in the national media. Maybe because “nut thinks he can take on cops, gets perforated” isn’t as newsworthy as “gunman slays helpless victims”. That’s probably part of it. But then again these sound like suicides by cop. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/128 "2012-12-26T21:45:43Z")
Do other countries have fewer violent crazy people or do their crazies do less damage because they use less dangerous weapons? Or both, or neither? Any good statistics out there? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/129 "2012-12-26T22:13:06Z")
I haven’t the least doubt that a full array of statistics exist that clearly prove the answer is “YES!”. Also, “NO!”. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/130 "2012-12-26T22:16:59Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > I’m not a big gun advocate, neither am I against guns. Regardless, until the social climate and mores changes the violence won’t. People need to take responsibility for one’s action. Today’s youth have no respect for convention, law or order. It’s an entitlement mindset society that is the problem. Many mass shooters fire their last shot into themselves. Are they taking responsibility for their actions by imposing the death penalty on themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/131 "2012-12-26T23:12:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Probably referencing the lame-ass meme about not enough men in schools. Agree, in the sense that I don’t want kids to see teaching as a mainly female pursuit. Even as I think that, as a very rough rule of dumb, women are better at it. But I’m also coming around to the notion that we guys ought to just bow out and hand the power over to the women just generally. Kind of a universal declaration of Yes, Dear. We’ve been screwing things up for thousands of years, they can’t do any worse. > [@Lumpy](#): > > I believe he was referring to the fact that the soldiers were unarmed, and hence not comparable to my hypothetical about a shooter taking on a police precinct. Well that clears that up. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/132 "2012-12-26T23:44:32Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Do other countries have fewer violent crazy people or do their crazies do less damage because they use less dangerous weapons? Or both, or neither? Any good statistics out there? In 20 years in Panama I have never heard of a spree killing of strangers, using guns, machetes, or anything else. I imagine there may have been some involving small numbers of people. Guns and rifles can be owned legally here, but I don’t think ownership is common. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/133 "2012-12-27T01:32:10Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What the hell are you talking about with regards to Fort Hood? Sorry, I was being sarcastic about the notion that got floated after the CT shooting that a ‘feminized culture’ was part of the reason for the shootings. Clearly an army base is not a feminized environment- sorry if that one fell flat. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/134 "2012-12-27T08:32:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Probably referencing the lame-ass meme about not enough men in schools. Agree, in the sense that I don’t want kids to see teaching as a mainly female pursuit. Even as I think that, as a very rough rule of dumb, women are better at it. But I’m also coming around to the notion that we guys ought to just bow out and hand the power over to the women just generally. Kind of a universal declaration of Yes, Dear. We’ve been screwing things up for thousands of years, they can’t do any worse. Rule of dumb? And, no, women are not any better or any worse than men at teaching. I’ve had great teachers of both genders and horrible teachers of both genders over the years. Luckily, the great teachers far, far outnumbered the horrible teachers. What “we” are you talking about? Last I checked, most places seem to have women participating rather regularly in the political [del]fiasco[/del] of the day. Some countries even have females as head of government. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/135 "2012-12-27T09:17:45Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > If someone wanted to kill you, and pressing Ctrl-Alt-E on the keyboard would do it, what do you think your life expectancy would be? > > In between that and strangling you with bare hands is every other method of homicide. Guns are way, way, at the Ctrl-Alt-E end, and that ease, extreme power with minimal skill and both physical and emotional distance make guns a part of the problem. Primly declaring that homicidal feelings are the entire problem is gun-humping nonsense. This is not a valid argument. There are many ways to end a human life, whether through accident or intent, and all are difficult, even with guns. Controls form naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/136 "2012-12-27T10:49:18Z")
Left a word. This: > [@Monty](#): > > Last I checked, most places seem to have women participating rather regularly in the political [del]fiasco[/del] of the day. Should be this: > [@](#): > > Last I checked, most places seem to have women participating rather regularly in the political [del]fiasco[/del] process of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/137 "2012-12-27T15:03:28Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > This is not a valid argument. There are many ways to end a human life, whether through accident or intent, and all are difficult, even with guns. Controls form naturally. If “killing people with guns is easier than killing people without guns” isn’t a valid argument, then why does anyone need guns at all? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/138 "2012-12-27T15:15:06Z")
Small penises. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/139 "2012-12-27T15:37:33Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > To get back on point. Firefighters carry guns? That’s just plain stupid. They have enough problems fighting fires. And just imagine a firefighter entering a fire with live ammo. Firefighters typically have access to axes, halligan bars, and (with prep time) high-pressure water spray. There’s nothing magical about a gun that makes it a better weapon. This is a matter of someone getting the jump on people trying to do their job and serve the public. More weapons would be meaningless. What may change is procedure, to try and anticipate copycats. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/140 "2012-12-27T16:03:23Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Firefighters typically have access to axes, halligan bars, and (with prep time) high-pressure water spray. > > There’s nothing magical about a gun that makes it a better weapon. > > This is a matter of someone getting the jump on people trying to do their job and serve the public. More weapons would be meaningless. > > What may change is procedure, to try and anticipate copycats. Very good points! Basically, what this evil man did was similar to what some violent anti-abortion groups used to do. They’d set off a small bomb at a clinic, then wait for the emergency responders to get there - and that would be when the BIG bomb went off. He set the fire as bait, to lure his victims into killing range. It’s a hard tactic to respond to effectively. Fortunately, not many people want to hurt police, firefighters, or paramedics. That’s their real protection. (I suppose bulletproof vests could be used, but given the weight of equipment firefighters already have to carry, I’m not sure that’s practical.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=8)