# if only firefighters carried guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021 "2012-12-24T16:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/141 "2012-12-27T16:14:29Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > _If_ stolen guns are the #1 way criminals get them it’s only because that happens to be the most convenient way _at the time_. Remove them from homes and criminals will just move on to the next most convenient way. No. Try reading up on the gun homicide rates in countries with strict gun control. Any national level gun control in the US would be a long-term project with the massive saturation we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/142 "2012-12-27T16:22:17Z")
Not having read most of the thread… So if I set up bear traps, pitfalls with spikes, punji sticks and falling log traps for the firefighters, what kinds of weapons should they bring? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/143 "2012-12-27T16:48:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Not having read most of the thread… > > So if I set up bear traps, pitfalls with spikes, punji sticks and falling log traps for the firefighters, what kinds of weapons should they bring? :dubious: Guns, obviously. You shoot the bear trap so that it is knocked out of your way. Then you shoot the points off of the spikes in the pit so they are not pointy anymore. Same with punji sticks. Then you shoot the rope holding up the logs so they fall safely to the ground 20 feet away from you. You guys act like this is some kind of rocket surgery. Or are you really that dumb. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/144 "2012-12-27T17:15:25Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Small penises. The gun thread equivalent of Godwin’s Law. What about all the women promoting guns for self-defense? Are they all suffering from penis envy? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/145 "2012-12-27T17:27:43Z")
People with small brains posit everything they don’t like to be about small penises. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/146 "2012-12-27T17:51:48Z")
What about people with large brains? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/147 "2012-12-27T17:56:37Z")
Doing quite well, thank you for asking. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/148 "2012-12-27T20:18:35Z")
Don’t be afraid. I know we seem alien to you, but we mean you no harm. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/149 "2012-12-27T23:46:44Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > If “killing people with guns is easier than killing people without guns” isn’t a valid argument, then why does anyone need guns at all? Strictly in the context of murder, no they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/150 "2012-12-27T23:56:40Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Don’t be afraid. I know we seem alien to you, but we mean you no harm. Our ovipositors are rather slender, actually, and you are free to pick the orifice you prefer. Its really the highest honor we have to offer an Earthling, to be chosen as a Sacred Vessel of New Life… ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/151 "2012-12-28T00:05:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Our ovipositors are rather slender, actually, and you are free to pick the orifice you prefer. Its really the highest honor we have to offer an Earthling, to be chosen as a Sacred Vessel of New Life… Nose ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/152 "2012-12-28T00:45:24Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Strictly in the context of murder, no they don’t. I’m not sure debates are supposed to work like this. You can’t just unilaterally declare an argument void without offering a reason why. You claimed that guns don’t affect the ability to kill people, regardless of intent: > [@](#): > > There are many ways to end a human life, whether through accident or intent, and all are difficult, even with guns. But now you are saying that this only applies to murder. Why? If guns don’t help murder people, how can they help killing people justifiably? Why does anyone need guns at all? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/153 "2012-12-28T01:23:17Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Why does anyone need guns at all? To protect yourself against all the other people with guns? This may sound like snark, but I have heard this argument used seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/154 "2012-12-28T01:38:36Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Why does anyone need guns at all? 1. So that victims aren’t helpless against attackers who are a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier than them. 2. So that four attackers aren’t automatically omnipotent over and invulnerable against one victim. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/155 "2012-12-28T01:48:12Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > 1. So that victims aren’t helpless against attackers who are a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier than them. > 2. So that four attackers aren’t automatically omnipotent over and invulnerable against one victim. Do you also agree that a gun makes a difference if the wielder is the attacker, and the others are innocent victims? Because there seems to be some confusion about this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/156 "2012-12-28T01:48:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > 1. So that victims aren’t helpless against attackers who are a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier than them. > 2. So that four attackers aren’t automatically omnipotent over and invulnerable against one victim. How come these attackers do not have guns? Is there some kind of talisman or something involved? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/157 "2012-12-28T02:31:54Z")
My short answer to the nagging question in this page is, you have a right to defend yourself with superior force (I’m too lazy to list all the qualifications.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/158 "2012-12-28T03:30:13Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Nose Oooh, a rhinosexual Earthling! Very rare, highly prized. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/159 "2012-12-28T04:20:21Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > My short answer to the nagging question in this page is, you have a right to defend yourself with superior force (I’m too lazy to list all the qualifications.) Just so we’re clear, then: your earlier objection to the point that guns make it easier to murder people-- that was just nonsense, right? Because it seemed kind of like nonsense to me. We are in agreement now that guns make it a lot easier to murder people, and your strange objection to this obvious fact was a total error, yes? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021/160 "2012-12-28T04:47:31Z")
I had to back-read my own post. I said it’s not easy to kill in any way. This is because of given controls. I can’t really say “it’s not easy to walk in public and start shooting people,” because obviously people can. But limited gun availability compared with other deadly weapons (even in America,) and police visibility can minimize this (this is up for further debate.) Your alt-ctl-del example was what made me say this concerning all types of weapons. And then, there is relative ease by which one can murder. In this respect, guns rate high. No fool can deny that. So your expert debating skills faltered slightly when you threw the next question, “Why should there be guns then?” This is much easier to answer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-only-firefighters-carried-guns/645021.md?page=9)