# If "Paki" is acceptable to use then what other slurs are? Nigger? Spic? Homo? Jap? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 16, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375 "2012-07-16T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/321 "2012-07-27T23:07:37Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > emphasis mine. > > Why? Why do you want the racist usage to be propagated? Why not ignore the usage that is not intended as an offence, _and_ that has a legitimate reason for being around? Do you have an urgent and pressing _need_ to say it? Will you just DIE if you don’t use the term _paki_? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/322 "2012-07-27T23:08:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Wow. What bloody conceit. Because it is insulting to _British_ ears, it should be verboten. Well then, there is a list of things I find insulting and hateful which are permitted and which I am sure you would insist on “free speech” grounds, which I would like to be banned. Should I put them up? Or are there double standards? It’s insulting to me, and I’m an Indian (by descent, not nationality) who has lived for 11 years in the UK, three in the Middle East, two in India and 14 in the US. Is that good enough for you? I’m not saying it should merit a warning; clearly, lots of people are going to have no idea that it’s offensive\*, but I’ve reported its use before. The poster in question apologized and everyone moved on. Why don’t you explain what your double-secret offensive things are, and we’ll talk about them? \*I suspect that **truthseeker** ’s lack of knowledge is not a particularly good example, since he also assumes that nobody is offended when he refers to all East Asian people as “Chinese”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/323 "2012-07-28T00:29:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you have an urgent and pressing _need_ to say it? Will you just DIE if you don’t use the term _paki_? It’s not reasonable to expect or request this, in the context. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/324 "2012-07-28T00:54:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Wow. What bloody conceit. Because it is insulting to _British_ ears, it should be verboten. Well then, there is a list of things I find insulting and hateful which are permitted and which I am sure you would insist on “free speech” grounds, which I would like to be banned. Should I put them up? Or are there double standards? I imagine you don’t care; but you - and people like you - have driven me from this messageboard. That may not matter to you; it may be more important that you get to say whatever you want. That’s fine, and if your’e comfortable with driving demographics from this messageboard, I guess that’s fine, too. It took me quite a long while to check back in on SDMB, and the first thing I looked at was this thread. And I got confirmation I was right - I’m not welcome here. At least, I’m only welcome here if I accept a culture in which your right to use terms I find hurtful trumps my desire not to be hurt. So, my brief return was brief. I won’t post on a board where terms associated with violent racism against people like myself are tolerated. I respect your right to use these terms\*; I just will not associate, even tangentially, with those who defend them. I’ve seen too much hatred and violence assocated with this word in particular. _Fuck, why am I saying that? No I don’t. I don’t respect it at all. I’m just saying it out of fear of messageboard intimidation. No, I have no respect for your use of that word, whatever context you may put upon it. You clearly have no comrephension of the hurt and pain associated with it, and - more specifically - you don’t_ care\*, because your “free speech” is more important to you than the pain it can cause. You even claim it’s merely a “conceit”. Why can’t you say “yeah, there’s 60 MILLION people - not an insignificant number - who view this as an offensive term; maybe it’s better that we don’t use it”? What’s wrong with you that you woouldn’t take that attitude? Seriously, dude. 60 MILLION people in Britain. That’s like using a term that’s offensive to everyone in ten of your states. Would you consider that OK? Yeah. I hope the SDMB administration read this at some point and consider it in relation to their policies, but this is speech which is driving away people like me. It’s not an “American” board, it is an international board. It invites members from all over the world, and contains members from all over the world. It should therefore accomodate members from all over the world - or make it clear in advance that it does not do so. Maybe they don’t mind that certain demographics are being driven away, but I hope they read this and understand why this is happening and that they care. But anyway. I feel I’ve been forced away. I came back. Saw this. I was right to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/325 "2012-07-28T01:10:11Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Wow. What bloody conceit. Because it is insulting to _British_ ears, it should be verboten. Or - shorter version - yes, because it is insulting to a particular - and not insignificant - demographic, it should be avoided out of a sense of basic decency. I mean, what size demographic qualifies to you? Just the one you’re a member of? 60 million people is a pretty frickin’ large demographic. I shudder to think how many people are required in order to qualify in your view. 120 million? 240 milion? I mean, we’re well over half the population of the US at that point. Does it qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/326 "2012-07-28T02:10:25Z")
You know he’s Pakistani, right? I don’t like it either, but as far as\*\* AK84\*\* is concerned I can’t get very upset about _him_ not wanting the word to be off limits. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/327 "2012-07-28T04:15:59Z")
The other message board that I was talking about was almost exclusively used by people of south-Asian origin from all across the world. One person complained about the same word. The moderator simply told him its not a racist word in the US where the servers of that forum were, so he’s got to live with the usage. That’s one approach. > [@bldysabba](#): > > emphasis mine. > > Why? Why do you want the racist usage to be propagated? Why not ignore the usage that is not intended as an offence, _and_ that has a legitimate reason for being around? Totally agreed, instead of trying to take the negative sense out of it by simply ignoring, some people want to interrupt and stop all 7 billion people of this world and the future generations from using a natural short form. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/328 "2012-07-28T07:11:07Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Or - shorter version - yes, because it is insulting to a particular - and not insignificant - demographic, it should be avoided out of a sense of basic decency. Weren’t gone for very long this time, were you? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/329 "2012-07-28T07:41:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s insulting to me, and I’m an Indian (by descent, not nationality) who has lived for 11 years in the UK, three in the Middle East, two in India and 14 in the US. Is that good enough for you? > > I’m not saying it should merit a warning; clearly, lots of people are going to have no idea that it’s offensive\*, but I’ve reported its use before. The poster in question apologized and everyone moved on. > > Why don’t you explain what your double-secret offensive things are, and we’ll talk about them? > > \*I suspect that **truthseeker** ’s lack of knowledge is not a particularly good example, since he also assumes that nobody is offended when he refers to all East Asian people as “Chinese”. **RNATB** , I understand that in the British context, more than any other, the term Paki is offensive. However, the term by itself has a perfectly good, absolutely neutral reason to exist as a national identifier, and it does exist in that context for a very large number of people, almost the whole world in fact, outside of Britain. What I, and some others, are trying to argue for is that “Paki” has a right to exist and be used unchecked when used in neutral contexts. I agree, and fully support moderation of the term _when it is used as a racial slur_. When it is not however, it is my opinion that we should not allow the actions of a small community of bigots in one corner of the world to dictate the meaning and usage of a term, _especially_ when it has a legitimate reason for existence that is otherwise so innocent and so similar to many other such demonyms. Does this mean it’s open season on using it as a slur? Of course not. Moderators should make judgement calls when the term is being used as a racial slur and police that usage. It however also means that innocent usage of the term should not be insta-reported or be met by a chorus of people insisting that it is offensive and hence unusable, because that is ignorance talking. And it is ignorance that does harm, by making a term Pakistanis use for themselves into a “bad word” that shouldn’t be spoken in polite company. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/330 "2012-07-28T07:44:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you have an urgent and pressing _need_ to say it? Will you just DIE if you don’t use the term _paki_? I’m beginning to understand how your post count is where it is. Have you bothered reading or thinking about anything I’ve posted in this thread before hitting the quote button and copy pasting the same one line rejoinder each time? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/331 "2012-07-28T11:25:27Z")
The Danish word for ‘finally’ is ‘slut’ Slut is a horrible word in English. Do the Danes _really_ need to keep using it? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/332 "2012-07-28T11:57:55Z")
They probably do, those silly cream puffs. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/333 "2012-07-28T12:11:05Z")
I’m going out to buy an apple Danish, slut. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/334 "2012-07-28T12:30:00Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > **RNATB** , I understand that in the British context, more than any other, the term Paki is offensive. However, the term by itself has a perfectly good, absolutely neutral reason to exist as a national identifier, and it does exist in that context for a very large number of people, almost the whole world in fact, outside of Britain. What I, and some others, are trying to argue for is that “Paki” has a right to exist and be used unchecked when used in neutral contexts. I suppose it’s somewhat comparable to the word “Jap” in that it’s essentially just a shortened version of the relevant demonym, but usage has caused it to have racist connotations. Personally I’d be all for making “Paki” a neutral word by having everyone using it as such. But as a Briton I have no problem being sensitive enough to resist saying words like “Jap” which don’t have much of a history here, but can potentially cause offence to Americans and Japanese people. While this _is_ an American board I find it surprisingly US-centric for a place that’s supposedly full of enlightened minds. More so than any other board I’ve used. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/335 "2012-07-28T15:44:03Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I’m going out to buy an apple Danish, slut. Careful with that comma. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/336 "2012-07-28T15:51:26Z")
Now you tell me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/337 "2012-07-28T17:20:12Z")
Actually I think the Board here is doing it right. When someone uses a term like “Paki” or “Jap”, terms that are not always used in a derogatory manner- then the right thing is for a Mod note to explain that those terms may offend others and the user should refrain from using them in the future. A official Warning or Banning out of the blue on a clueless naif is not going to make the SDMB look any more “enlightened” (and its interesting that if dudes agree they are enlightened and if they dont they are racist…:dubious:). Even other terms, in context, can be used. I would hope that in the context of _"Japs Bomb Pearl Harbor_" or "_Nigger Jim from Huckleberry Finn…_\* there wouldnt even need to be a Mod note. “Enlightened” :rolleyes: minds should certainly understand the context. In other words, we dont need a list of “insta-ban words” either. Such a thing would not be “_enlightened_”. ("You keep using that Word, I do not think it means what you think it means”) \*Or “I bought a quart of _Homo_ milk and…” “My house is now _spic_ & span”😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/338 "2012-07-28T17:22:01Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I’m going out to buy an apple Danish, slut. You want me to _bite your wax tadpole_?:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/339 "2012-07-29T04:14:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > As another example, the word “kaffir” is, if anything, worse than “nigger” in terms of offensiveness to me. It’s something akin to combining “nigger” with “motherfucker” in one word while spitting in one’s face. But [in context](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15215418&highlight=kaffir#post15215418), it’s not offensive at all. I must admit to getting a start recently when it was used in its original meaning to refer to non Muslims (possibly by **Ibn** , can’t recall) and it wasn’t clear at first, but in the broader context totally made sense. It’s possible I might have used the word “Kaffir” as a joke or in a discussion in which I said something like “As far as traditional Muslims are concerned he’s a Kaffir and deserves to be killed” but “Kaffir” in Arabic is very much not a word and when directed at a person would, unless intended as a joke, be almost universally seen in the Islamic world just as much an insult as “Kaffir” in Afrikaans is. For those not aware, “Kaffir” is an Arabic word that can loosely be translated as “unbeliever” or “infidel”(though such a translation is vastly less common) and references people who don’t believe in the God of Abraham. It comes from an Arabic root word which means “to cover” the idea that the “Kaffir” is covering up his true beliefs. It is often mistakenly believed to refer to non-Muslims, but according to Islamic tradition, Christians and Jews are not “Kuffar”(the plural of Kaffir) because they do believe in the God of Abraham and are fellow “people of the book”. That’s why it’s wrong to think that all the invocations in the Quran in which Muslims are encouraged to hate “the unbelievers” and “the unbelievers” are referred to in the vilest terms possible, don’t refer to Christians or Jews. That said, generally speaking most Muslims today who make references to “the unbelievers” “the Kuffar” or to someone as a “kaffir” rather clearly are referring to Christians and Jews. “Kaffir” is just about the worst word a Muslim can call someone and certainly would be understood as such, so I would certainly say that whenever the term “Kaffir” is used to describe a person, with obvious exceptions whether it’s used with either it’s Arabic or Afrikaans meaning is an insult. What Mr. Dibble is referring to for those who don’t know is that “Kaffir” is roughly the Afrikaans equivalent of “Nigger” though I think many South Africans and Namibians would argue that “Nigger” should be seen as the English equivalent of “Kaffir” which is an argument that I’m not unsympathetic with. The Afrikaaners picked up the word from Muslim slave traders who used the term to refer to their slaves. ---
**Author:** ![md\_1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@md\_1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md_1982)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/340 "2012-09-21T00:34:33Z")
Whether or not “Paki” is a term that should or shouldn’t be used is an awkward one. But I do think that the actual word “Paki” isn’t offensive or racist at all. For example, if someone said “The Pakis didn’t win a single medal at The Olympics” then that ISN’T racist because people can say “The Brits did amazing at The Olympics” or “The Aussies were really disappointing at The Olympics”. Whereas if someone said “I hate all Pakis, they should all die” then that IS racist. Because the person that says that is generalising all Pakistanis when they probably haven’t met 99% of them. Now I am Indian, I was bullied by Pakistanis as a child for 4 years of my school like and it was Hell but that doesn’t mean to say that I hate every single Pakistani. But sometimes I even get called “Paki” in the street and I really don’t know how to take it. The ignorance of that offends me purely because they assume that I am a Pakistani and for them to try and get at me by saying “Paki” is just really stupid of them. But the fact that they are TRYING to get at me bothers me more. So no, the word “Paki” isn’t racist but is used in racist terms but if a Pakisitani person was to be walking down the street and someone shouted “Paki” to them-I do believe it is up to them to not get offended. But if that person said “I hate all Pakis” THEN you have the right to be offended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375.md?page=18)