# If "Paki" is acceptable to use then what other slurs are? Nigger? Spic? Homo? Jap? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 16, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375 "2012-07-16T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/101 "2012-07-16T17:40:33Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > What gives anybody the right to decide that Paki should be taken off the table because racist assholes in the UK use it as their insult of choice for people with brown skin? Unfortunately, violence and aggression grab the attention more readily than normality and calm - it’s not good, but it’s the way things often seem to play out - the bad boys often spoil it for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/102 "2012-07-16T17:43:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s news to me, but I think this is a separate isue: I think you’re talking about reclaiming a word. That’s not the same thing as a word that has more than one meaning. Reclaiming a word is an effort to remove the sting of the slur, and that’s not the situation with “Paki.” Paki said by an asshole bigot is a slur. Paki said by a pakistani to refer to a native of Pakistan is not a slur. Homo said by an asshole bigot is a slur. Homo said by a homosexual to refer to a homosexual is not a slur. I see no reason why rules applied to the one should not be applied to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/103 "2012-07-16T17:44:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I wonder if it is a handicap for [peace activist Paki Wieland](http://www.gazettenet.com/blog/gazetteer/northampton-peace-activist-wieland-heads-kabul) It might, if modern filters can’t get around this interesting variation on the [Scunthorpe problem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/104 "2012-07-16T17:47:14Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I see no reason why rules applied to the one should not be applied to the other. Applying those rules can be tricker in a text based medium. But we do use context to determine if a comment is intended to be insulting and we use that when we’re deciding how to moderate posts. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/105 "2012-07-16T17:50:29Z")
> [@FTB](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Why? T **o someone who doesn’t already know that is used as a slur by some, it just sounds like a shortened version of a country’s name**. > > What, until you’re informed to the contrary? > > Or are you advocating carrying on regardless, even after being informed? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I didn’t say, or even imply, either of those. I said that there is nothing in the term itself that leads one to automatically assume that it is a slur, **Farmer Jane’s** assertions to the contrary. I’ll just refer you to my previous answer - being ignorant of a given term’s pejorative use allows the user to the play the ignorance card (which is fine and legitimate) - but once informed to the contrary, the ‘well it’s not where I come from’ defence carries little weight. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/106 "2012-07-16T17:52:19Z")
Marley, I expressed myself that way because calling South Asians “Pakis” is comparable to calling black people “niggers” or Hispanics “Spics”. People have long used such tactics to demonstrate how offensive such terms are. For example, Native American activists used to regularly parade around carrying signs at sporting events holding aloft signs emblazoned “The New York Niggers, The Cleveland Kikes, the San Francisco Faggots, the Sacramento Spics, and The Washington Redskins” to demonstrate just how offensive they found the term Redskin and how offended they were by the use of Indian nicknames for sports teams. I should note I never heard any blacks or Hispanics complain about this tactic. So no, I don’t think it was in bad taste and don’t see how it was out-of-line. Moreover, I see other people using similar tactics on similar threads, such as discussions of the term “tranny”. As to your other points, as several African-American academics and writers have pointed out, African-Americans having been referring to each other as niggers for centuries and it is only recently that some have shortened it to “nigga”. Furthermore millions of whites and others(usually hip-hop fans) regularly use the term “nigger” Jon-pejoratively. As others have noted “homo” “queer” and “tranny” are all regularly used in non-pejorative ways. As for Spic, yes, at a country club I worked at I heard many older whites who regularly used the term without the slightest suggestion they understood it was a racial slur. You also say you didn’t give Truthseeker2 any moderator instructions because he’d already been issued several. I’m confused because I don’t see him receiving any in that thread. Now, obviously you’ve made your decision but once again I’ll point out that the logically consistent response to a poster in a post making nasty comments about Asian culture referring to a “Jap” would be to take him at his word when he claims he that he was using the term as shorthand for Japanese. Similarly, if a poster were to complain about how “in your face” gay activists are and then comlain about seeing some “Homo” prancing around in high heels, who then claimed he meant the term “homo” to merely be short for homosexual not as a slur, you’d take him at his word and give him a pass. I think you’d agree those would not be the proper response. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/107 "2012-07-16T18:00:42Z")
> [@Mangetot](#): > > > [@bldysabba](#): > > > > What gives anybody the right to decide that Paki should be taken off the table because racist assholes in the UK use it as their insult of choice for people with brown skin? > > Unfortunately, violence and aggression grab the attention more readily than normality and calm - it’s not good, but it’s the way things often seem to play out - the bad boys often spoil it for everyone. bldysabba - Whilst also missing the point that outside the US, the initials KKK have no sinister meaning whatsoever - but now we [the wider world] know that they do, then whenever they are used, our education in matters global allow us to see them as a term of reference. An no one’s demanding that it’s “taken off the table” - merely that you’re cognisant of it so that it’s not used in the pejorative context. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/108 "2012-07-16T18:06:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Marley, I expressed myself that way because calling South Asians “Pakis” is comparable to calling black people “niggers” or Hispanics “Spics”. I understand that that was your argument. The problem is that it’s not really true. In some contexts “Paki” is offensive and in others it’s a reference (possibly ill-informed) to the name of the country or the people who live there. In this thread we’ve already had a Pakistani poster disagree with you that the word is not always offensive. > [@](#): > > I’ll point out that the logically consistent response to a poster in a post making nasty comments about Asian culture referring to a “Jap” would be to take him at his word when he claims he that he was using the term as shorthand for Japanese. Which I might do if I felt it resolved the situation. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/109 "2012-07-16T18:07:38Z")
> [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](#): > > Oh, and (with the exception of the slang term, ‘Aussie’, and the straight abbreviation of ‘Brit’, from British) the rest of your list are not mere contractions or abbreviations - they are actual [Demonym](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym)s (as you say, diminutive) forms of those nationalities you list - alas, and this is where your argument fails, wholesale, as “Paki” is not the diminutive or demonym for Pakistani, just as Aussie is not the demonym for Australian. > > _Quod erat demondstrandum_. All you have demonstrated is that Paki is not how people from Pakistan are formally known. That would have been a great victory for you if it had any bearing on what I was arguing. Unfortunately, tearing down strawmen doesn’t count for much around here. To clarify, I was responding to - > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by \*\*Full Tilt Boogie \*\* > For the same reason that once ‘nigger’ was thought of, and used, as mere badinage - whereas, we both know, that that is no longer the case. There are places in the world where people have never heard or used the word ‘cunt’ - following your reasoning, does that then make it OK for anyone to wander to said place and fling the word around with gay abandon? > > If so - why? Notice from my list how, even though ‘Paki’ is not the formal dimunitive form for addressing citizens of Pakistan, it can be considered as being functionally equivalent to ‘Aussie’ or ‘Brit’, and very similar in form and manner of devising to a number of the other demonyms on the list? Notice how a Pakistani in the thread earlier has mentioned that most of his countrymen do not think of the term as a slur but use it to refer to themselves? Notice how I mentioned that many people in his neighbouring country use it in the same way, with no inherent offence associated with the term? Put all these things together please. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **bldysabba** > If not, allow me to spell it out for you. It is a common and perfectly normal practice for citizens of a country to be known by some dimunitive form of the name of their country. For Pakistanis (and in my view also Japanese), people, you’re insisting this should not be so because a bunch of hateful bastards co-opted the term at some point in the past. Nigger, kike etc. are nowhere near equivalent to ‘Paki’ , and/or “Jap”, and if only you would try to get out of your highly ethnocentric worldview for a second, you would realise why this is so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/110 "2012-07-16T18:10:40Z")
> [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](#): > > I’ll just refer you to my previous answer - being ignorant of a given term’s pejorative use allows the user to the play the ignorance card (which is fine and legitimate) - but once informed to the contrary, the ‘well it’s not where I come from’ defence carries little weight. I am _only_ commenting on **Farmer Jane’s** unsupported assertion that the term, _in and of itself_, is obviously a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/111 "2012-07-16T18:20:09Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Sigh. What part of ‘Paki is half of a country’s name’ do you not understand? Here. Let me, off the top of my head, run a small exercise for how citizens of countries are often addressed. > > Australia - Aussie > Britain - Brit > Afghanistan - Afghani > Denmark - Dane > Sweden - Swede > Saudi Arabia - Saudi > Mongolia - Mongol > Kazakhistan - Kazakh > Turkey - Turk > > Are you beginning to notice a pattern yet? If not, allow me to spell it out for you. It is a common and perfectly normal practice for citizens of a country to be known by some dimunitive form of the name of their country. For Pakistanis (and in my view also Japanese), people, you’re insisting this should not be so because a bunch of hateful bastards co-opted the term at some point in the past. Nigger, kike etc. are nowhere near equivalent to ‘Paki’ , and/or “Jap”, and if only you would try to get out of your highly ethnocentric worldview for a second, you would realise why this is so. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why? To someone who doesn’t already know that is used as a slur by some, it just sounds like a shortened version of a country’s name. > [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](#): > > What, until you’re informed to the contrary? > > Or are you advocating carrying on regardless, even after being informed? > [@bldysabba](#): > > All you have demonstrated is that Paki is not how people from Pakistan are formally known. That would have been a great victory for you if it had any bearing on what I was arguing. Unfortunately, tearing down strawmen doesn’t count for much around here. To clarify, I was responding to - > > Notice from my list how, even though ‘Paki’ is not the formal dimunitive form for addressing citizens of Pakistan, it can be considered as being functionally equivalent to ‘Aussie’ or ‘Brit’, and very similar in form and manner of devising to a number of the other demonyms on the list? Notice how a Pakistani in the thread earlier has mentioned that most of his countrymen do not think of the term as a slur but use it to refer to themselves? Notice how I mentioned that many people in his neighbouring country use it in the same way, with no inherent offence associated with the term? Put all these things together please. Sorry, now it just looks like you’re back-peddalling. You’re obviously not reading what’s being written, so there’s little point in continuing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/112 "2012-07-16T18:23:52Z")
I honestly don’t know which side of the argument this supports, but recall that George W. Bush used the term ‘Paki’, clearly not intending offense: > **[Naive Bush slights Pakistanis with a short-cut](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/09/usa.matthewengel)** > > President George Bush's fractured command of international nuance landed him in yet more trouble yesterday as Pakistanis protested over his casual use of the abbreviation "Pakis", which is widely regarded as an offensive epithet. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/113 "2012-07-16T18:25:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Unfortunately, violence and aggression grab the attention more readily than normality and calm - it’s not good, but it’s the way things often seem to play out - the bad boys often spoil it for everyone. Except that in this case it is not the bad boys who’re ‘spoiling it’ for anyone. It is the white knights who think they’re rushing to the rescue of the terminally offended. It’s easy to police these things by focusing on not allowing Paki to be used as a racist slur. Why ask for a blanket ban? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/114 "2012-07-16T18:28:20Z")
> [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](#): > > You’re obviously not reading what’s being written, so there’s little point in continuing with you. Heh. Considering that you called my reposting an earlier response to you as ‘back-pedalling’, we’re definitely agreed on the quoted sentence. Verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/115 "2012-07-16T18:30:23Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Heh. We’re definitely agreed on that particular sentence. Verbatim. Now I’m aware that your style is merely tangential asides and misdirection, I’m glad we got that sorted out. Now on to more fruitful matters. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/116 "2012-07-16T18:32:16Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Heh. Considering that you called my reposting an earlier response to you as ‘back-pedalling’, we’re definitely agreed on the quoted sentence. Verbatim. No (now you’ve re-edited your reply), my point is that you don’t actually read what’s being written or stick to the point being made, nor debate effectively, which is just tiresome and unproductive. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/117 "2012-07-16T18:37:46Z")
> [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](#): > > No (now you’ve re-edited your reply), my point is that you don’t actually read what’s being written or stick to the point being made, nor debate effectively, which is just tiresome and unproductive. > > Good luck. Do you at least acknowledge that I was only commenting on the assertion that one should know just by looking at it that “Paki” is a slur? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/118 "2012-07-16T18:40:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Here in the United States, it’s not uncommon for Pakistani-owned businesses to use “Pak” – Pak-Mail, Indo-Pak Halal, Pak Auto Service. I’ve even seen “Pakola” soft drinks, which, I believe actually originate in Pakistan. > > So, is “Pak” okay? Is it tainted by “Paki”? What about “Pak-man”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/119 "2012-07-16T18:43:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you at least acknowledge that I was only commenting on the assertion that one should know just by looking at it that “Paki” is a slur? Of course - yes - and I’ve never argued to the contrary. You make a very sound and reasonable point. My point (not to you) is that once having been informed that a given term, in this case ‘Paki’, has widespread (and I’m aware, having lived there, that Americans can be prone to seeing things only in their experience of living in the US, the outside world sometimes being anathema to them) pejorative contextual meaning, then it is foolhardy in the extreme to argue for its continued use. Rather in the same way that we don’t use ‘nigger’, ‘wop’, ‘dago’ etc any more, for very much the same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Full\_Tilt\_Boogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Tilt_Boogie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375/120 "2012-07-16T18:48:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Here in the United States, it’s not uncommon for Pakistani-owned businesses to use “Pak” – Pak-Mail, Indo-Pak Halal, Pak Auto Service. I’ve even seen “Pakola” soft drinks, which, I believe actually originate in Pakistan. > > So, is “Pak” okay? Is it tainted by “Paki”? Again, members, here, who don’t live in the US (e.g. UK, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, India, Pakistan etc.) will be aware that ‘PAK’ is merely the abbreviation of Pakistan, and is used throughout the cricketing world on on-screen scoreboards, as a matter of course, and without offence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-paki-is-acceptable-to-use-then-what-other-slurs-are-nigger-spic-homo-jap/628375.md?page=7)