That after 160 years of research, NO paranormal phenomena have ever been proven? We hear all about psychics-but where are they? None of them have ever been proven to have predicted anything. Likewise for “telepathy” or “psychokinesis”-the late J.B. Rhine spend his whole life trying to prove that these abilities existed-and NONE of his experimental results have ever been confirmed.
So, the point is moot-paranormal effects either :
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Like all attempts at futurism, you’ve got a lot of wild speculation but very little hard evidence. Got anything solid we can debate?
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t seen anything solid here yet. Keep trying though.
Of course the developement of weapons and possibilty of self destruction is not wild speculation to many. The existence of self evolution is also a matter of fact and not wild specualtion at all. Genetic research and self manipulation of our evolution is a real event. Much like the scientist on the Manhattan project it’s much too late before they peer away from the arrogance of their science to ask “My God, what have we done ?”
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
That after 160 years of research, NO paranormal phenomena have ever been proven? We hear all about psychics-but where are they? None of them have ever been proven to have predicted anything. Likewise for “telepathy” or “psychokinesis”-the late J.B. Rhine spend his whole life trying to prove that these abilities existed-and NONE of his experimental results have ever been confirmed.
So, the point is moot-paranormal effects either :
If your definition of paranormal = telepathy, psychokinesis, you are perfectly correct. On the other hand, if you considetr this list of paranormal, there are a couple of interesting possibilties.
Paranormality
Many humans believe in the existence of phenomena which lie outside the materialist reality of natural science. The phenomena alleged include:
Beings
Ra, Anu, Ashur, Ormazd, Baal, El, Yahweh, Jehovah, God, Zeus, Jupiter, Brahma, Amaterasu, Viracocha, Quetzalcoatl, Great Spirit, Lugh, Pele, Allah, Odin
Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles, Loki, Osiris, Shiva
souls, spirits, demons, vampires, werewolves, hobgoblins, bogeymen
Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy
angels, fairies, leprechauns, gnomes, elves
Places or States
Heaven, Elysium, Olympus, Asgard, K’un-lun, T’ien
Hades, Tartarus, Orcus, Acheron, Hell, Gehenna, Jahannam, bhumis, Jigoku
Sheol, Styx, Purgatory, Valhalla, Limbo
nirvana, buddhata, satori
Forces or Substances
Good, Spirit, atman, ch’i, prana, karma, life force, Godhead, Nous
Evil, Thanatos
ether, humours, ectoplasm, elan vital, phlogiston, polywater
antigravity, cold fusion, perpetual motion,** free energy**, orgone
Apparitions
auras, bio-energy, chakras, Kirlian photography
ghosts, reincarnation, samsara
miracles, stigmata, speaking in tongues, possession, spontaneous human combustion
UFOs, alien abductions, crop circles, Bermuda Triangle
Powers
voodoo, witchcraft, sorcery, magick, shamanism, wicca
telekinesis, astral projection
crystals, pyramids
faith healing, alchemy, homeopathy, acupuncture, **chiropractic **
Knowledge
astrology, tarot, palmistry, numerology, phrenology, enneagrams, dowsing
I Ching, feng shui
prophecy, fortune-telling, Nostradamus, Bible codes
Perception
clairvoyance, telepathy, channeling
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Black and Decker and Caterpillar are testamnets to human intelligence, not strength. They in fact demonstrate the evolution of intelligence to mitigate the primal importance of strength.
[/quote]
No, they don’t. If you could travel back in time to 1300 A.D. and give a medieval carpenter a power drill, he might initially be afraid of it, but after watching it being used with no subsequent demonic horde appearing and realizing how useful a gizmo it is, he could easily become quite skilled with it.
Go back even further, if you like. I bet when Archimedes was building his siege engines, he’d’ve loved a table saw.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
No, they don’t. If you could travel back in time to 1300 A.D. and give a medieval carpenter a power drill, he might initially be afraid of it, but after watching it being used with no subsequent demonic horde appearing and realizing how useful a gizmo it is, he could easily become quite skilled with it.
Go back even further, if you like. I bet when Archimedes was building his siege engines, he’d’ve loved a table saw.
[/QUOTE]
Just let me know when that time machine comes around. I want to send some stuff back too.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Much like the scientist on the Manhattan project it’s much too late before they peer away from the arrogance of their science to ask “My God, what have we done ?”
[/QUOTE]
Actually, Robert Oppenheimer quoted Vishnu. It was Enola Gay co-pilot Robert Lewis who said “My God, what have we done.”
Anyway, that was 62 years ago. When exactly was this “too late” thing supposed to occur?
Where did that list of “paranormal” stuff come from, because there are a few items that don’t belong.
And keeping your streak going, you miss yet another point. If power tools represent evolution, doesn’t that suggest our ancestors could never have used them? In truth, some ancient societies had quite elaborate machines at their command and there is no indication they couldn’t handle even better tools - they just hadn’t developed the necessary knowledge base or manufacturing infrastructure to produce them.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Actually, Robert Oppenheimer quoted Vishnu. It was Enola Gay co-pilot Robert Lewis who said “My God, what have we done.”
Anyway, that was 62 years ago. When exactly was this “too late” thing supposed to occur?
[/Quote]
Don’t know. Probably already has.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Where did that list of “paranormal” stuff come from, because there are a few items that don’t belong.
[/Quote]
Just an opinion, like the author of that book. His is different than yours.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
And keeping your streak going, you miss yet another point. If power tools represent evolution, doesn’t that suggest our ancestors could never have used them? In truth, some ancient societies had quite elaborate machines at their command and there is no indication they couldn’t handle even better tools - they just hadn’t developed the necessary knowledge base or manufacturing infrastructure to produce them.
[/QUOTE]
This makes no sense at all to me. So what if Jesus could have used a drill ? He didn’t build it.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Don’t know. Probably already has.
[/quote]
And your evidence of this is…?
You admit he could have used a drill? His unevolved brain could actually have handled that without melting? His primitive immune system would have been able to stave off drill-cooties and his encounter with a Black and Decker Model PS1440K04 would not have selected him out by killing him?
You don’t really know what the word “evolution” means, do you?
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
And your evidence of this is…?You admit he could have used a drill? His unevolved brain could actually have handled that without melting? His primitive immune system would have been able to stave off drill-cooties and his encounter with a Black and Decker Model PS1440K04 would not have selected him out by killing him?
You don’t really know what the word “evolution” means, do you?
[/QUOTE]
Uh…you really don’t understand that an argument about “what if we could time travel” is bullshit ?
In fact, forget time travel. Just explain why a chimp can use power tools without melting his poor little brain and how that has anything to do with the intelligence to build the drill.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
In fact, forget time travel. Just explain why a chimp can use power tools without melting his poor little brain and how that has anything to do with the intelligence to build the drill.
[/QUOTE]
Chimps can use power tools? I trust you have a video link.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Chimps can use power tools? I trust you have a video link.
[/QUOTE]
Chimps imitate all kinds of human behavior. Doesn’t melt their brain. I’ve seen one take his cage apart with a screw driver. I suppose that’s why they don’t get to handle the cordless drill.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Chimps imitate all kinds of human behavior. Doesn’t melt their brain. I’ve seen one take his cage apart with a screw driver. I suppose that’s why they don’t get to handle the cordless drill.
[/QUOTE]
I think you need to explain to Bryan, as you did to me, that you are just kidding around. Why else would you refer to a power tool, and then use a screwdriver as an example?
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Chimps can use power tools? I trust you have a video link.
[/QUOTE]
To be fair, pigeons can use power tools, if you define the term to include any device for which a lever or button is pressed and an electrical device then does work. That doesn’t mean a pigeon could build a Skinner box.
I have no idea whta the point of that argument is, anyway. This thread looks to me like more pointless dithering over what “paranormal” means, and attempts to interpret dictionary definitions in a way that makes the word meaningless.
Daniel
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
I’ve seen one take his cage apart with a screw driver.
[/QUOTE]
Was it an electric screwdriver? If not, then it’s of no relevance and gets tossed into the big junkpile of your other undocumented claims.
The point I was trying to make is that there is no evidence of a significant biological difference between the brain of a human living in the 21st century (where power tools are common) and the brain of a person living in Ancient Rome (where electric power tools were unknown, though they did have some pretty elaborate machines and they did manage to engineer some still-impressive buildings). When you describe a difference and ascribe it to human evolution, you are suggesting there is a biological difference.
Or, more plausibly, you suggest you lack an understanding of the concept.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Was it an electric screwdriver? If not, then it’s of no relevance and gets tossed into the big junkpile of your other undocumented claims.
The point I was trying to make is that there is no evidence of a significant biological difference between the brain of a human living in the 21st century (where power tools are common) and the brain of a person living in Ancient Rome (where electric power tools were unknown, though they did have some pretty elaborate machines and they did manage to engineer some still-impressive buildings). When you describe a difference and ascribe it to human evolution, you are suggesting there is a biological difference.
Or, more plausibly, you suggest you lack an understanding of the concept.
[/QUOTE]
The concept of intelligence evolution is not one of my own, you understand. It’s one that many remarkable intelectuals subsribe to. Now, granted, Stephen Hawking may be completely wrong, but I’m going with him over Bryan from Canada or Tom from…where ever Tom is from.
maybe you could visit here: http://www.ippl.org/12-21-05-20.html , where primates play golf and ride motorcycles and scooters.
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
To be fair, pigeons can use power tools, if you define the term to include any device for which a lever or button is pressed and an electrical device then does work. That doesn’t mean a pigeon could build a Skinner box.
I have no idea whta the point of that argument is, anyway. This thread looks to me like more pointless dithering over what “paranormal” means, and attempts to interpret dictionary definitions in a way that makes the word meaningless.
Daniel
[/QUOTE]
By now, with Iknewit’s repeated (and often varied) lists of “paranormal” events/phenomena, I think the only thing I can say for sure is that Iknewit has a radically different idea of the term than that of most people I know.
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I think you need to explain to Bryan, as you did to me, that you are just kidding around. Why else would you refer to a power tool, and then use a screwdriver as an example?
[/QUOTE]
Eh…screwdriver…tool…power tool…motorcycle…beer bottle…they can use lots of stuff.
I think you decided to kid yourself. It’s safer there. Everything is nice and tidy and explainable.
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
By now, with Iknewit’s repeated (and often varied) lists of “paranormal” events/phenomena, I think the only thing I can say for sure is that Iknewit has a radically different idea of the term than that of most people I know.
[/QUOTE]
Read a book or two when you get a chance. Make one of them a dictionary.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Eh…screwdriver…tool…power tool…motorcycle…beer bottle…they can use lots of stuff.
[/QUOTE]
Granting that for the sake of the argument, how is a screwdriver an example of a power tool? That’s what you were asked for.