# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/381 "2015-09-15T19:01:37Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > really? > > where would you rather live if you were an atheist? Cincinnati? Or Cairo? Can’t you see what a lame gotcha question this is? “Where would you rather live, a crowded city with unreliable services that is torn by political violence, or a city in a stable, more or less prosperous constitutional democracy?” “Umm…The latter?” “A-HA! You hate Islam as much as I do! You’re just too dishonest to admit it!” How the hell does that follow? ETA: In fact I know an American woman who lives in Cairo, working for the State Department. Despite its problems, she loves it there. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/382 "2015-09-15T19:08:50Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Can’t you see what a lame gotcha question this is? > > “Where would you rather live, a crowded city with unreliable services that is torn by political violence, or a city in a stable, more or less prosperous constitutional democracy?” > > “Umm…The latter?” > > “A-HA! You hate Islam as much as I do! You’re just too dishonest to admit it!” > > How the hell does that follow? > > ETA: In fact I know an American woman who lives in Cairo, working for the State Department. Despite its problems, she loves it there. nm ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/383 "2015-09-15T19:10:53Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Can’t you see what a lame gotcha question this is? > > “Where would you rather live, a crowded city with unreliable services that is torn by political violence, or a city in a stable, more or less prosperous constitutional democracy?” > > “Umm…The latter?” > > “A-HA! You hate Islam as much as I do! You’re just too dishonest to admit it!” > > How the hell does that follow? > > ETA: In fact I know an American woman who lives in Cairo, working for the State Department. Despite its problems, she loves it there. I think your point is very valid. I also think that it is erroneous to that religion itself is not going to make it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/384 "2015-09-15T19:13:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > really? > > where would you rather live if you were an atheist? Cincinnati? Or Cairo? You seem to have misunderstood my post. Since you are not interested in altering your opinion in any way when confronted with new evidence, there is no point in having a discussion with you. The whole premise for an honest debate is that the participants are willing to actually _change_ their position. Since you have yourself stated that you won’t, and that is backed up by your behavior in this thread, there is no point in discussing it with you. I’m interested in honest debate and having my mind changed, that is the reason I visit this board. I consider it a victory, not a defeat, if I change my mind, because it means I have switched to a _better_ and _more informed_ opinion. I am not here to waste my time on someone who is not interested in changing their mind and who by his own admission is biased and have an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/385 "2015-09-15T19:15:27Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > You seem to have misunderstood my post. > Since you are not interested in altering your opinion in any way when confronted with new evidence, there is no point in having a discussion with you. The whole premise for an honest debate is that the participants are willing to actually _change_ their position. Since you have yourself stated that you won’t, and that is backed up by your behavior in this thread, there is no point in discussing it with you. > > I’m interested in honest debate and having my mind changed, that is the reason I visit this board. I consider it a victory, not a defeat, if I change my mind, because it means I have switched to a _better_ and _more informed_ opinion. I am not here to waste my time on someone who is not interested in changing their mind and who by his own admission is biased and have an agenda. oh please! every single person on SDMB has both a bias and an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/386 "2015-09-15T19:15:42Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > really? > > where would you rather live if you were an atheist? Cincinnati? Or Cairo? America is an extremely religious country. Russia is overwhelmingly non-believer. Where would you rather live if you were gay? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/387 "2015-09-15T19:16:32Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > You seem to have misunderstood my post. you seem to not have answered the question ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/388 "2015-09-15T19:18:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > America is an extremely religious country. Russia is overwhelmingly non-believer. > Where would you rather live if you were gay? IDK… My first reaction would be I’d rather live in the USA. To be honest, Russia has the reputation of not being very friendly to gays. Perhaps I have that Idea wrong. I don’t feel like I know enough about Russia to answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/389 "2015-09-15T19:21:59Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > oh please! > > every single person on SDMB has both a bias and an agenda. Yes, except most of us are willing to alter our views when given new information. For 8 pages you’ve had your argument rather soundly thrashed, have repeatedly failed to come up with any new arguments. Instead you’ve just been engaging in hypocritical, poorly informed rants which have shown little understanding of any of the religions being discussed. If you wanted to rant or JAQ off you should have posted this in the pit, but you didn’t. You posted it in a forum where people are supposed to engage in reasoned, logical debates and have instead refused to engage in such and also proved impervious to logic and reason from people who are frankly better informed on the subject than you. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/390 "2015-09-15T19:25:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, except most of us are willing to alter our views when given new information. For 8 pages you’ve had your argument rather soundly thrashed, have repeatedly failed to come up with any new arguments. > > Instead you’ve just been engaging in hypocritical, poorly informed rants which have shown little understanding of any of the religions being discussed. > > If you wanted to rant or JAQ off you should have posted this in the pit, but you didn’t. > > You posted it in a forum where people are supposed to engage in reasoned, logical debates and have instead refused to engage in such and also proved impervious to logic and reason from people who are frankly better informed on the subject than you. Really? So a bunch of religious apologists don’t agree with me. wow. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/391 "2015-09-15T19:57:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > If you were a homosexual female atheist, where would you rather live? In Cairo Egypt or Cincinnati Ohio? What about Harare, Zimbabwe versus Istanbul, Turkey? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/392 "2015-09-15T19:59:26Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What about Harare, Zimbabwe versus Istanbul, Turkey? I’m pretty sure Istanbul ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/393 "2015-09-15T20:05:53Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Really? > > So a bunch of religious apologists don’t agree with me. wow. A bunch of atheists don’t agree with you, either. Because you genuinely, legitimately, demonstrably don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/394 "2015-09-15T20:07:55Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > oh please! > > every single person on SDMB has both a bias and an agenda. I do not have any other agenda than learning new things, developing my world view, and having interesting conversations. Do not assume that everyone is running the same programming as you. I do however have some bias, but when I find out that I do, I look at the source of it and remove it, because I don’t want to be biased, I want to be honest, objective and factually correct. I’m not here to promote an agenda or defend my bias, I am here to reduce my ignorance. > [@Robert163](#): > > you seem to not have answered the question I would rather live in Cairo, and it is not even close. Cairo is from what I know an great city with a rich cultural life and access to some of the most amazing artifacts and wonders of humankind. I’d love to spend some time there. Cincinnati on the other hand seems to be a run-of-the-mill american city which fits poorly with my tastes and requires a car to get around in. It’s really not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/395 "2015-09-15T20:10:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A bunch of atheists don’t agree with you, either. Because you genuinely, legitimately, demonstrably don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Well, that is absurd. Certainly some religions are going to be better than others, and some are going to be worse than others. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/396 "2015-09-15T20:14:01Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I do not have any other agenda than learning new things, developing my world view, and having interesting conversations. Do not assume that everyone is running the same programming as you. > > I do however have some bias, but when I find out that I do, I look at the source of it and remove it, because I don’t want to be biased, I want to be honest, objective and factually correct. I’m not here to promote an agenda or defend my bias, I am here to reduce my ignorance. > > I would rather live in Cairo, and it is not even close. > > Cairo is from what I know an great city with a rich cultural life and access to some of the most amazing artifacts and wonders of humankind. I’d love to spend some time there. Cincinnati on the other hand seems to be a run-of-the-mill american city which fits poorly with my tastes and requires a car to get around in. It’s really not even close. There really is no scenario you’re going to accept or admit to where it would be better to live in a less religious city than a more religious one, is there? For someone who is not a member of that religion… ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/397 "2015-09-15T20:32:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > There really is no scenario you’re going to accept or admit to where it would be better to live in a less religious city than a more religious one, is there? For someone who is not a member of that religion… You asked me to choose between one of the greatest cities in human civilization, a city that has been around for thousands of years and Cincinnati. I have been considering going to Cairo for years. I wouldn’t go to Cincinnati even if you paid for the ticket and hotel. If you had contrasted it with New York I would have had to think about it. You have completely lost this argument and you are now at the bottom of the barrel. I started out this conversation with the intent of having an honest exchange of ideas and information, you have proven and stated that you are not interested in that. You lost the argument. Now is your opportunity to show some intellectual honesty and _change your mind_. If you can not see that that is what has happened, I would simply recommend you stop posting altogether. You have no arguments left and are now just embarrassing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/398 "2015-09-15T20:33:52Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Really? > > So a bunch of religious apologists don’t agree with me. wow. Um… Most of the people arguing with you don’t even believe in God. When you’re in a hole, stop digging. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/399 "2015-09-15T20:33:55Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Really? > > So a bunch of religious apologists don’t agree with me. wow. Let’s keep the insults at a minimum, please. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/400 "2015-09-15T20:34:00Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > You asked me to choose between one of the greatest cities in human civilization, a city that has been around for thousands of years and Cincinnati. I have been considering going to Cairo for years. I wouldn’t go to Cincinnati even if you paid for the ticket and hotel. If you had contrasted it with New York I would have had to think about it. > You have completely lost this argument and you are now at the bottom of the barrel. I started out this conversation with the intent of having an honest exchange of ideas and information, you have proven and stated that you are not interested in that. > You lost the argument. Now is your opportunity to show some intellectual honesty and _change your mind_. If you can not see that that is what has happened, I would simply recommend you stop posting altogether. You have no arguments left and are now just embarrassing yourself. actually, the question was which would be better for an Atheist to live in, not you yourself, stoneburg [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=21)