# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/942 "2015-09-30T01:31:40Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > If your concern is to compare chistian and muslim kill counts you will find this pretty interesting. > It was pre-Iraq, though, so add a few hundred thousand more on the christian side, and a few thousand for the muslim. > > [Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls and Megadeaths](http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#RelCon) You are new to this thread, I think, mostly I am done talking about topics that have been covered and covered over and over again. The idea is what specifically about the book caused specific actions on parts of the believers. In other words, where did Jesus say… kill your enemy is so and so fashion for so and so reason. Where? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/943 "2015-09-30T01:32:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “You keep using this word…” a·pol·o·gist əˈpäləjəst/ noun a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. ---
**Author:** ![McDoogins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@McDoogins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDoogins)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/944 "2015-09-30T01:35:40Z")
Religion is just a part of the culture, the culture would still be violent if they were Christian or Jewish or Buddhist. Maybe I’m just naïve, but to me it seems the middle east is jealous of all the civil liberties we have here. I’m sorry, I meant to say the middle east is angry of all the civil liberties our women have here. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/945 "2015-09-30T01:36:17Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Those are just words. What specific actions did Buddha command that are being used to persecute people? A distinction without a difference. Your arguments are sounding more and more desperate. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/946 "2015-09-30T01:41:23Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Actually, I am one of the few Atheists who will admit that the influence of Atheism upon communism was a contributing factor to the way in which communists treated religion, religious institutions and religious people. And having no belief in a soul could easily cause you to view people as being disposable. Not that it - does - cause that, it could. This is an interesting point- why did Stalin kill so many of his own, yet Hitler would often simply retire his staff or administration rather than execute them. The communists were keen on the idea that all are equal, but the nazis had an ideology of genetic superiority. Maybe this means that Stalin saw people as disposable - as only social conditions prevent someone from rising in a hierarchy then you can replace people from below, but Hitler retained the idea of people having innate talent that makes them progress in society - hence people are not so disposable (unless you are deemed genetically unworthy). A kind of extreme nurture/nature contrast ? ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/947 "2015-09-30T01:42:08Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Those are just words. What specific actions did Buddha command that are being used to persecute people? “For five thousand years, king of the gods, as long as the sun and the moon exist in this universe, you who will become a Buddha, protect the _Śāsana_ of our Lord Buddha.” ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/948 "2015-09-30T01:45:35Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > “For five thousand years, king of the gods, as long as the sun and the moon exist in this universe, you who will become a Buddha, protect the _Śāsana_ of our Lord Buddha.” I asked for specific actions endorsed by Buddha. I can only assume that you found none that were violent. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/949 "2015-09-30T01:46:42Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > This is an interesting point- why did Stalin kill so many of his own, yet Hitler would often simply retire his staff or administration rather than execute them. > > The communists were keen on the idea that all are equal, but the nazis had an ideology of genetic superiority. > Maybe this means that Stalin saw people as disposable - as only social conditions prevent someone from rising in a hierarchy then you can replace people from below, but Hitler retained the idea of people having innate talent that makes them progress in society - hence people are not so disposable (unless you are deemed genetically unworthy). > > A kind of extreme nurture/nature contrast ? I don’t know, it’s an interesting question but I am growing rather sleepy and can’t come up with a good response. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/950 "2015-09-30T01:52:38Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I asked for specific actions endorsed by Buddha. I can only assume that you found none that were violent. “Protect the _Śāsana_” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/951 "2015-09-30T01:54:59Z")
And of course Jesus’ various rants against money, his imagery of a stingy rich man cooking in Hell… This sort of foundational scripture is pretty much why American Christian society and culture is like it is. The disdain for wealth, innocent of greed and avarice. Yeah, that would be us all right. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/952 "2015-09-30T01:57:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > If you do not dispute the fact that a religious text can make bad people worse, that it can cause people to adopt attitudes and actions they would not normally take, if you actually believe this, then you would endorse my criticism of the Koran, instead of chastising me for it, insulting me, and talking about how stupid I am and what poor grasp of logic I posses. > > You are a very funny bird, Tom. I have made no claim that you are stupid. I have noted that your hatred is supported by your decision to refuse education. If you simply laid out the idea that people could use scriptures for evil purposes, I would agree with you. What you have done, instead, is to seize several selected passages, (translated and misinterpreted outside historical context by people with their own agenda), and used that poor information to support a negative bias that you had before you chose to accept their odd presentations. From there, you moved to condemn an entire religion, dismissing every legitimate evidence against your narrow view. You began this thread with an OP that was misleading and that engaged in the fallacy of the excluded middle. When I pointed out the errors in the OP, you moved the goalposts so far that you changed the entire game, then chastised me for not playing by your new rules. You claim I am a “funny bird” for not joining you in hysterics over something you have chosen to misunderstand. That is not my problem. I do not chastise you for being opposed to Islam. I chastise you for wallowing in ignorance and appearing to prefer it to information, facts, and logic. We are supposed to be fighting ignorance, and you are proselytizing for it. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/953 "2015-09-30T02:18:10Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > “Protect the _Śāsana_” Not commenting on that… that is resurrecting points that we have gone over and over. I’m not really commenting on that _either_. I’m going to sleep. I ordered this book, The Lives of Muhammad by Kecia Ali. After I get through the first chapter or first 3 chapters I’ll maybe make a post about it. I’d be quite willing (very much so) to keep that thread to historical discussion and avoid criticism and controversy. In other words I did enjoy chatting with you. Thanks for talking with me and not getting mad at me or insulting me. I can tell that you do know a lot about the history of Islam/Muhammad, so perhaps we can talk about that in a future thread. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/954 "2015-09-30T02:26:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you simply laid out the idea that people could use scriptures for evil purposes, I would agree with you. That is not what is being contested. The point at hand is can a religious text/religion make people worse than they would be without adherence to the text. I will repeat my comments from before to see if you agree or disagree. I am about to go to sleep so most likely I will look for your response tomorrow, should you choose to answer. If possible, I don’t know if it would be possible for you, but, if possible, you could respond without doing either of the following: 1- Giving me another patronizing lecture 2- Somehow changing the subject In other words, see if you can respond directly to the point that I am making. (The point is that religion (can) make bad people worse). > [@](#): > > But religion pushes the bad actions further than they would of done otherwise. Don’t like gays? Lot’s of people don’t. But hang out in a church every sunday that preaches hatred of gays, all biblicaly (mainly old testament) endorsed and what not, God and Jesus hates them as much as you do!!! Suddenly your discomfort towards gay people has actually increased geometrically… and turned into book certified hatred. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/955 "2015-09-30T02:29:24Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > “Protect the _Śāsana_” **A’isha** , thank you for ridding me of some ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/956 "2015-09-30T02:29:49Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Not commenting on that… that is resurrecting points that we have gone over and over. I’m not really commenting on that _either_. > > I’m going to sleep. I ordered this book, The Lives of Muhammad by Kecia Ali. After I get through the first chapter or first 3 chapters I’ll maybe make a post about it. I’d be quite willing (very much so) to keep that thread to historical discussion and avoid criticism and controversy. > > In other words I did enjoy chatting with you. Thanks for talking with me and not getting mad at me or insulting me. I can tell that you do know a lot about the history of Islam/Muhammad, so perhaps we can talk about that in a future thread. I hope you enjoy the book, and I’m happy to talk with you about Islam any time! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/957 "2015-09-30T02:30:49Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **A’isha** , thank you for ridding me of some ignorance. That’s all I want to do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/958 "2015-09-30T02:30:55Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > The Christian Lord’s Resistance Army has killed over 65,000 in Uganda alone. and? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/959 "2015-09-30T02:50:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ahem, don’t care. Not unless he is quoting Buddha. The question at hand is how does a religious text itself cause it’s believers to act. You’re doing this act on purpose, right? There is no text whatsoever–and never has been–that can cause a person to act one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/960 "2015-09-30T03:08:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and? And if Muslim violence results in 8,000 deaths per year, it’s a pretty sorry also-ran when compared to the deaths resulting from Christian violence. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/961 "2015-09-30T03:10:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re doing this act on purpose, right? There is no text whatsoever–and never has been–that can cause a person to act one way or the other. religion has no influence on people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=49)