# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1162 "2015-10-23T15:08:20Z")
Because of the difficulty in pushing a rope, for one thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1163 "2015-10-23T15:11:45Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Guy in previous post said Mohammed was quite nice to his slaves. and this leads you to say people are saying slavery is good? Bizarre straw constructions made. > [@](#): > > Did he have slaves ? Yes, it was of course matter of course in the era. Islamic law did not usually permit inherited slavery, and this was rare - and the law generally favored the manumission. Uniquely of course was the tradition of the slave army ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1164 "2015-10-23T15:16:13Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Why couldn’t women have sex slaves too ? > [URL=“[Islamic views on slavery - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#cite_note-55)”] Why a woman would bother with more delicate male ego trouble I don’t know. the book that is the source I know and it is about the Arab region in any case. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1165 "2015-10-23T15:27:48Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > and this leads you to say people are saying slavery is good? > > Bizarre straw constructions made. > > Yes, it was of course matter of course in the era. > > Islamic law did not usually permit inherited slavery, and this was rare - and the law generally favored the manumission. > > Uniquely of course was the tradition of the slave army Why didn’t he just write (sorry, I meant why didn’t God write) in the Quran “Slavery is wrong, don’t do it.” ? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1166 "2015-10-23T15:31:24Z")
Why do people construct straw men? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1167 "2015-10-23T15:34:22Z")
In any case there is only utility of compariing like to like. [The wikipedia has enough for that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Slavery_in_the_Quran) > [@](#): > > There are many common features between the institution of slavery in the Quran and that of neighboring cultures. However, the Quranic institution had some unique new features.[20] Bernard Lewis states that the Qur’anic legislation brought two major changes to ancient slavery which were to have far-reaching effects: presumption of freedom, and the ban on the enslavement of free persons except in strictly defined circumstances.[33] According to Brockopp, the idea of using alms for the manumission of slaves appears to be unique to the Quran, assuming the traditional interpretation of verses [Quran 2:177] and [Quran 9:60]. Similarly, the practice of freeing slaves in atonement for certain sins appears to be introduced by the Quran (but compare Exod 21:26-7).[20] The forced prostitution of female slaves, a Near Eastern custom of great antiquity, is condemned in the Quran.[22][41] Murray Gordon notes that this ban is “of no small significance.”[42] Brockopp writes: “Other cultures limit a master’s right to harm a slave but few exhort masters to treat their slaves kindly, and the placement of slaves in the same category as other weak members of society who deserve protection is unknown outside the Qur’an. The unique contribution of the Qur’an, then, is to be found in its emphasis on the place of slaves in society and society’s responsibility toward the slave, perhaps the most progressive legislation on slavery in its time.”[20] I do not think in any case slavery would be successfully abolished until the time when the economic reasons became weak - as happened with the industrial revolution. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1168 "2015-10-23T15:38:28Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > In any case there is only utility of compariing like to like. [The wikipedia has enough for that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Slavery_in_the_Quran) > I do not think in any case slavery would be successfully abolished until the time when the economic reasons became weak - as happened with the industrial revolution. Well it definitely won’t be abolished if the Prophets (sorry I mean God via the prophets) don’t tell their people not to do it. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1169 "2015-10-23T15:44:42Z")
If you want to invent (sorry, I mean transmit) a religion of peace, you start at page one and declare that it is wrong to start a war or take a slave or steal or rape. The ten commandments are nice and clear, though incomplete. Just add a non-slavery commandment. You would think god would figure that one out. It’s easy. Think of any act of force or violence, and unambiguously prohibit it. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1170 "2015-10-23T15:47:58Z")
It’s especially easy 1400 years after the fact, while living in a completely different society. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1171 "2015-10-23T15:54:04Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Well it definitely won’t be abolished if the Prophets (sorry I mean God via the prophets) don’t tell their people not to do it. and yet slavery is abolished… I do not see any points but an immature parenthetical ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1172 "2015-10-23T15:54:32Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > If you want to invent (sorry, I mean transmit) a religion of peace, you start at page one and declare that it is wrong to start a war or take a slave or steal or rape. The ten commandments are nice and clear, though incomplete. Just add a non-slavery commandment. You would think god would figure that one out. > > It’s easy. Think of any act of force or violence, and unambiguously prohibit it. The Founding Fathers didn’t manage to ban slavery either and they were in a much more enlightened time and culture, writing less than 250 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1173 "2015-10-23T15:56:06Z")
How to create a religion of peace Page one, line one 1. Never be violent. 2. Never hit your kids 3. Never take a slave 4. Never invade a country 5. Never rob anyone using violence. 6. Never violently enforce the law. 7. Never rape anyone. 8. Never hit anyone 9. When I’m dead and gone, don’t listen to any scholar or wise-ass who tries to say you can do any of those things. 10. Relax Easy peasey, why can’t God manage that ? Hm ? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1174 "2015-10-23T16:06:08Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Easy peasey, why can’t God manage that ? Hm ? Because there is no god, only humans - subject to the limits of their own time and culture - creating messages that they attribute to god. It’s the same reason there’s no instructions on making penicillin in a holy book either - the writers had no access to any information outside themselves. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1175 "2015-10-23T18:31:30Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Why Khadija is erased from this prejudiced dialogue… well I suppose the conclusion needs to have its strawmen. I was just about to bring up Khadija in response to robert163’s nonsense “questions”. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1176 "2015-10-23T18:36:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > And do you really think that women would be wearing Burkas if The Koran said: “Treat women exactly the same, make no distinction” instead of instructing women to be modest? “Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is aware of what they do.” Q 24:30 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1177 "2015-10-23T18:45:39Z")
“And have the women say Lo! For my eyes are up here…” One of the lesser known writings, some scholars have expressed skepticism… ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1178 "2015-10-23T20:21:49Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > The “Fundies” are the ones who run the religion from the book, the way it is SUPPOSED to be run. And this is the problem right here. You define yourself as an opponent of and disbeliever in religion, and yet you also feel that you are more qualified than actual religious people to define how religion SHOULD be run. How’s that work? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1179 "2015-10-23T22:49:17Z")
_Round and round With hate we’ll find a way, just give it time Round and round…_ (with no apologies whatsoever to Ratt) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1180 "2015-10-24T00:56:45Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > If you want to invent (sorry, I mean transmit) a religion of peace, > [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > How to create a religion of peace The whole “religion of peace” nonsense is an invented straw man argument by Islamophobes. The phrase was coined by one politician following the WTC/Pentagon attacks to distance his beliefs from those of the Wahhabists who carried out the attacks. It is not a historical claim for Islam and it is only used by opponents of Islam when attempting to be sarcastic. Attacking the religion based on the single comment of a single politician uttered fewer than 15 years ago is just dumb. Basing arguments on an attack on the phrase displays a complete ignorance of the religion, both current and historical. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1181 "2015-10-24T01:30:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The whole “religion of peace” nonsense is an invented straw man argument by Islamophobes. > The phrase was coined by one politician following the WTC/Pentagon attacks to distance his beliefs from those of the Wahhabists who carried out the attacks. > > It is not a historical claim for Islam and it is only used by opponents of Islam when attempting to be sarcastic. > > Attacking the religion based on the single comment of a single politician uttered fewer than 15 years ago is just dumb. Basing arguments on an attack on the phrase displays a complete ignorance of the religion, both current and historical. It also ignores the simple fact that Christianity, supposedly the religion of “the Prince of Peace”, is quite violent at times, and not all of those times are in distant memory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=60)