# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1182 "2015-10-24T01:37:18Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > _Round and round > With hate we’ll find a way, just give it time > Round and round…_ > > (with no apologies whatsoever to Ratt) > [@](#): > > [_Go ahead and hate your neighbor, > Go ahead and cheat a friend. > Do it in the name of Heaven, > You can justify it in the end._](http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/onetinsoldier.html) Sadly, too many people think that’s all there is to this song. At least that’s the way they act. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1183 "2015-10-24T01:44:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The whole “religion of peace” nonsense is an invented straw man argument by Islamophobes. > The phrase was coined by one politician following the WTC/Pentagon attacks to distance his beliefs from those of the Wahhabists who carried out the attacks. > > It is not a historical claim for Islam and it is only used by opponents of Islam when attempting to be sarcastic. > > Attacking the religion based on the single comment of a single politician uttered fewer than 15 years ago is just dumb. Basing arguments on an attack on the phrase displays a complete ignorance of the religion, both current and historical. Oh dear. Sounds bad. I’m not getting your point here, really. Are you saying it’s never been a religion of peace but has always been violent, or that nobody said it even should be peaceful until 15 years ago ? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1184 "2015-10-24T02:07:55Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Oh dear. Sounds bad. I’m not getting your point here, really. Are you saying it’s never been a religion of peace but has always been violent, or that nobody said it even should be peaceful until 15 years ago ? Your disingenuous behavior is scoring you no points. You might want to review the posts of poster **FXMastermind** over the last few weeks and then check his current status. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1185 "2015-10-24T03:19:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The whole “religion of peace” nonsense is an invented straw man argument by Islamophobes. > The phrase was coined by one politician following the WTC/Pentagon attacks to distance his beliefs from those of the Wahhabists who carried out the attacks. > > It is not a historical claim for Islam and it is only used by opponents of Islam when attempting to be sarcastic. > > Attacking the religion based on the single comment of a single politician uttered fewer than 15 years ago is just dumb. Basing arguments on an attack on the phrase displays a complete ignorance of the religion, both current and historical. EEeeeh, yes and no. I mean, you’re absolutely correct that the whole “HYPOCRITES !” angle is wholly made up, and that anyone ranting against “the religion of peace” is 100% of the time an islamophobic asshole and/or a complete ignorant, no questions asked. On the other hand, the theoretical operative principle behind Islam is that once everybody is contained within the Dar-al-Islam, there cannot be but everlasting peace because everybody will put subservience to God and the community before individualism and personal interest - so in that respect, it really _is_ a religion whose ultimate goal is peace on Earth, on a very practical level. It’s almost Confucianist in that respect. But of course, on the gripping hand it’s really no different from every \*other \*asshole who’s dead certain that, if they were king/queen of the world and everybody thought like 'um they could solve every last one of the Earth’s problems in 5 seconds flat ;). World events certainly belie the notion that Islamic nations/organizations don’t fight against each other and it’s all kumbaya from Muhammad on out. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1186 "2015-10-24T03:23:16Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Where in this thread has anyone said such a thing? > > Yes of course, Khadidja herself was an important merchant and it has always been the islamic law that the husband has no dominion over the wife’s assets or the wife’s business. There is sadly the customary law (3urf) that has overridden the quranic injunction in different places and times, which is a reason why “quranism” is popular among the feminist interpretation to even strip away the acculation of the many doubtful pseudo-ahadith. > > It has to be said it is more common to see the economic role > [The wikipedia provides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islamic_economics)some corrective to the simplistic, ignorant stereotype views. > > Of course different times and places would have different balances. > but the Saudi vision, it is not real return to salaf roots, it is in fact innovation - a great irony of the salafistes in that they are such radical innovators although dressing it up in the discourse that says the opposite. In which regard they mirror evangelical Christians who insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible. Ironic that Christian fundamentalists have more in common with Wahhabis than they do with Roman Catholics or Anglicans. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1187 "2015-10-24T03:42:10Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And this is the problem right here. You define yourself as an opponent of and disbeliever in religion, and yet you also feel that you are more qualified than actual religious people to define how religion SHOULD be run. How’s that work? Further’n that, he’s the equivalent of somebody who’d confidently assert that the late Fred Phelps and the Lord’s Resistance Army are the essential nature of Christianity, and everyone else up to and including the Pope are just faking it/getting it wrong. Familiarity might breed contempt, but lack thereof breeds utter lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1188 "2015-10-24T12:50:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your disingenuous behavior is scoring you no points. > > You might want to review the posts of poster **FXMastermind** over the last few weeks and then check his current status. > > [/Moderating] I still don’t know what your point is. What is it ? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1189 "2015-10-24T13:33:36Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > I still don’t know what your point is. What is it ? The point is that you have been asking nonsense questions in different threads and actually starting threads with similar meaningless questions in attempts to get a rise out of other posters. That walks the line of trolling and if you continue you will lose your posting privileges. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1190 "2015-10-24T14:36:06Z")
It’s been a very enjoyable to-and-fro :), enjoying the great free speech that is so precious and unavailable to many people. I remember being at school and being made to follow the state religion. Imagine how bad it is in places that are out and out theocracies ? :eek: We live in a world where religious people are always trying to assume power and crush dissent and free thought. But I still don’t get your point about the religion of peace thing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1191 "2015-10-24T14:43:49Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But I still don’t get your point about the religion of peace thing. Your post about it was nonsense. I pointed out why it was nonsense. Your response ignored the facts that I pointed out: The phrase was one man’s reaction to the WTC/Pentagon attacks in which he tried to distinguish his beliefs from those of the Wahhabists who launched the attack. Your “questions” ignored the facts to engage in more nonsense. [JAQing off](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off) about how a “religion of peace” should operate is simply a backhanded way to mock Islam and serves no purpose in this thread because it does not address the actual point of the OP. If you continue JAQing off, I will have to conclude that you are trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1192 "2015-10-24T16:47:35Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > In which regard they mirror evangelical Christians who insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible. Ironic that Christian fundamentalists have more in common with Wahhabis than they do with Roman Catholics or Anglicans. There’s a reason Salafists(AKA Wahhabis) are referred to as “puritanical.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1193 "2015-10-24T16:49:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Further’n that, he’s the equivalent of somebody who’d confidently assert that the late Fred Phelps and the Lord’s Resistance Army are the essential nature of Christianity, and everyone else up to and including the Pope are just faking it/getting it wrong. > > Familiarity might breed contempt, but lack thereof breeds utter lunacy. Also the fact that he needed Ramira to explain to him who Khadijjah was doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in his knowledge or understanding of the religion. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1194 "2015-10-24T20:10:40Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But I still don’t get your point about the religion of peace thing. his point is that it was very painfully clear that you were trying to provoke for the sake of provoking. none of us rose to this because it was indeed very obvious. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1195 "2015-10-24T21:07:49Z")
I still don’t know who this religion of peace guy is supposed to be or why it matters. But there is no religion of peace, they all are violent. If you want a world of violence, keep being religious. Keep the divides and walls and in groups and out groups and worthies and unworthies and favoured and unfavoured. Naturally people don’t like their religion to be criticised, they want it to be taken “seriously”. Unfortunately, in the end, apart from the threat of violent retribution, there isn’t much about religion that should be taken seriously. At my school, too much direct or enthusiastic disrespect of religion would have brought a caning. Deep down I know you like this idea, although on the surface the pretense may be that that would be so wrong. People being people, even the most apparently peaceful and sensible ones get a satisfaction from seeing people not of their religion suffering. So no, I don’t believe radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion, because religious people all support violence in one form or another - with rare exceptions. OP answered. Ta 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1196 "2015-10-24T22:01:29Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > I still don’t know who this religion of peace guy is supposed to be or why it matters. The moderator explained it quite clearly and in rather uncomplicated language. > [@](#): > > But there is no religion of peace, they all are violent. 1. Then your sarcastic repetition of Islam being _the_ religion of peace was not merely sarcastic; it was intentionally dishonest and you parroted it merely to get a rise out of other posters. 2. Given the wide variety of religious beliefs around the world, many of them with tenets directly contradicting many tenets of the other beliefs, it is quite unlikely that it is religion that is the cause of the violence. The most likely source of the violence is with people being people. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1197 "2015-10-24T23:02:41Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The most likely source of the violence is with people being people. But No, Those \*Other People \*Must Be Bad!.. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1198 "2015-10-24T23:12:51Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > …because religious people all support violence in one form or another - with rare exceptions… The vast majority of personkind are “religious”, in one sense or another. And indeed, many of us are violent. But simply because two things are true does not mean they are connected, much less causative. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1199 "2015-10-25T01:33:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The vast majority of personkind are “religious”, in one sense or another. And indeed, many of us are violent. But simply because two things are true does not mean they are connected, much less causative. Evolutionary psychology suggests a [strong link between religion and violence](http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-EHEP002123.html). ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1200 "2015-10-25T02:11:01Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > I still don’t know who this religion of peace guy is supposed to be or why it matters. > But there is no religion of peace, they all are violent. If you want a world of violence, keep being religious. Keep the divides and walls and in groups and out groups and worthies and unworthies and favoured and unfavoured. > Naturally people don’t like their religion to be criticised, they want it to be taken “seriously”. Unfortunately, in the end, apart from the threat of violent retribution, there isn’t much about religion that should be taken seriously. > At my school, too much direct or enthusiastic disrespect of religion would have brought a caning. > Deep down I know you like this idea, although on the surface the pretense may be that that would be so wrong. People being people, even the most apparently peaceful and sensible ones get a satisfaction from seeing people not of their religion suffering. > > So no, I don’t believe radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion, because religious people all support violence in one form or another - with rare exceptions. > > OP answered. > > Ta 😃 There’s more than one moderator who thinks you’re trolling. Warning issued. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1201 "2015-10-25T15:06:23Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion, then how come non muslims in the same area/regions of the Middle East/Africa/Asia aren’t blowing things up, beheading people, and stoning people? Well, our taxes have paid for a lot of non-muslim blowing things up, so the premise is only partially true. But consider that the list of empires and caliphates from Europe to the Middle East is a long one, and that empires don’t get made by asking nicely. I think we can safely say that violence is built into the religion, and there is a plethora of scriptural and scholarly examples of that - from gender relations to child rearing to law. As I said, to make a non-violent religion is very very easy, a simple matter of a few unambiguous statements. I [agree with Sam Harris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd4-WXw2SM), a fundamentalist Jain would be as harmless as a daffodil, because there is nothing in Jain scripture that can fuel violence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=61)