# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1242 "2015-10-26T18:51:20Z")
So what would the Russians be like - Ох боже! - oh no, a rocket Ох боже! - god send a crosswind now! Ох боже! - aaargh, my pants are full! Ох боже! - what, we’re still alive, thank you god! Ох боже! - haha up yours, our god rules! ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1243 "2015-10-26T19:29:53Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Yup. Having said prayers, and having shouted Jesus Fucking Christ!! I know the difference in tone and type. I’d be worried about anyone who couldn’t. Except you do not, you know english tonalities. > [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Right. I have to have a degree in Arabic to know what Allahu Akbar means to people trying to kill other people ? Logical ? not really. straw man of course, nohting was said about degrees. Anyone speaking other languages truly fluently knows that the different languages have different intonation patterns and stress patterns - what sounds to me like an argument in the japanese is only a covnersation… This is such a sad and pitiful line of discussion… ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1244 "2015-10-26T20:18:29Z")
OK enlighten us. Allahu Akbar during battle - ? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1245 "2015-10-26T21:10:11Z")
Tells you that the American WWII observation that there are no athiests in foxholes is not something restricted to the english speakers. _And?_ I say Inchallah quite a lot. But I am not very religious and have not prayed properly in many years. It is a habit. I say Allah Akbar or La ilah ila allah when I feel stress or am annoyed. It is a habit. Someone who does not speak my language is not going to be able to tell me if I am religious or not. Particularly someone who has no idea about the speaking habits or the speaking pattenrs native to the language, or the intonations or anything. It is frankly extremely stupid a proposition that watching a video of battle or firing weapons in a civil war tells you anything very much… ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1246 "2015-10-26T21:14:57Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Tells you that the American WWII observation that there are no athiests in foxholes is not something restricted to the english speakers. > > _And?_ > > I say Inchallah quite a lot. But I am not very religious and have not prayed properly in many years. It is a habit. > I say Allah Akbar or La ilah ila allah when I feel stress or am annoyed. It is a habit. > Someone who does not speak my language is not going to be able to tell me if I am religious or not. > Particularly someone who has no idea about the speaking habits or the speaking pattenrs native to the language, or the intonations or anything. > > It is frankly extremely stupid a proposition that watching a video of battle or firing weapons in a civil war tells you anything very much… Sounds bad. So in the context of a firefight, it’s indecipherable ? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1247 "2015-10-26T21:26:11Z")
Isn’t it time for a new battle cry, then ? How about “A fair, open and rational republican democracy in which all races and sexualities are respected, is great.” ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1248 "2015-10-26T21:57:10Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Sounds bad. So in the context of a firefight, it’s indecipherable ? No, in the context of a firefight, it’s still impossible to tell whether it’s being said because the person saying it is making a deliberate religious claim for his actions, or because he’s always used that phrase in a bunch of different situations without ascribing any particular religious motivation to his specific actions. > [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Isn’t it time for a new battle cry, then ? > How about “A fair, open and rational republican democracy in which all races and sexualities are respected, is great.” Sure. Just as soon as all those non-Muslim countries whose armies have fought and still fight “for God and country” do the same. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1249 "2015-10-26T22:17:24Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > No, in the context of a firefight, it’s still impossible to tell whether it’s being said because the person saying it is making a deliberate religious claim for his actions, or because he’s always used that phrase in a bunch of different situations without ascribing any particular religious motivation to his specific actions. > > Sure. Just as soon as all those non-Muslim countries whose armies have fought and still fight “for God and country” do the same. Well, we had a teacher who was a territorial Army Sgt. One week he made a presentation about St Francis of Assisi, lovely story about a peaceful soul and his saintly ways. Beautiful. A few weeks later he turned up in full NBC gear to tell us about army and war. I think there was something about how the Falklands were British too, but I’m fuzzy on that. He gave some vicious beatings too. There are some very confused people in positions of authority. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1250 "2015-10-26T22:41:04Z")
…and when you consider some of the awful hymns they lumped us with - When A Knight Won His Spurs, [Onward Christian Soldiers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9DHgnKeAxo). Recipe for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1251 "2015-10-26T23:06:05Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Isn’t it time for a new battle cry, then ? > How about “A fair, open and rational republican democracy in which all races and sexualities are respected, is great.” I think you may need help on the basic idea of the “battle cry.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1252 "2015-10-26T23:25:58Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > I’m waiting for evidence that all these Islamic empires and caliphates were created peacefully. And now you move on to straw man flaws in logic. No one has claimed that “_all these Islamic empires and caliphates were created peacefully_,” so before you begin your wait, you should first explain why you are asking such a ridiculous question. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1253 "2015-10-26T23:37:56Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Every video I’ve seen of fighting in the Middle East has been accompanied by cries of Allahu Akbar. I am not even going to get into the discussion of the phrase’s meaning. I will even grant that when a member of ISIS or al Qaeda cries that phrase during an attack, they are, more often than not, intending to express a religious thought. So what? The fact that some Fundamentalist extremists, today, are making a “religious” statement based on a modern re-interpretation of an ancient text simply does not overthrow the actual history of the conquests 1400 to 1100 years ago that has been discovered in the correspondence and essays of the people involved. You are simply expressing your personal beliefs based on a desire to wish a history into existence that supports your beliefs rather than making the effort to actually read history. ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1254 "2015-10-26T23:41:10Z")
Do all religions contain the Ten Commandments? Or at least some of the commandments It is my recollection that Judaism, Islam and Christianity have the Ten Commandments stuck away somewhere in their form of the bible. Please correct me if I am wrong ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1255 "2015-10-26T23:42:58Z")
Same product from the same Vendor. ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1256 "2015-10-27T00:01:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > \*Nonsense. [Jaina scripture specifically states that the precept of nonviolence does not negate the prescribed duties and rights of its adherents, even when those duties and rights involve killing.](http://www.unipune.ac.in/snc/cssh/ipq/english/IPQ/1-5%20volumes/03-1/3-1-3.pdf) Examples in this category include self-defense (on the individual and state level, i.e., “just war”), capital punishment, and protecting one’s property from thieves. (Note that most modern developed societies disallow mere crimes against property as a justification for killing other human beings, but the famously nonviolent Jaina scriptural tradition is more harsh in this regard.) > > All ancient religions that attempt to codify or legislate social behavior norms in human communities “can fuel violence” because they all condone or enjoin violence in certain circumstances. All religions claim that they condone violence only when the circumstances justify it. > > And anybody who gets their understanding of Jainism or any other religious doctrine from someone as ill-informed on the subject as Sam Harris is wilfully collaborating in the perpetuation of their own ignorance.\* Great post, it deserves repeating ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1257 "2015-10-27T00:22:53Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And how do you know this? Did you talk to the troops? > > 😃 I don’t need to 😃 In a religious war it is generally assumed that the combatants are fighting at the behest of their diety ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1258 "2015-10-27T00:25:37Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In a very real sense, yes. Or rather, they talked to us. In writing. Well, it’s more like we’re eavesdropping on their conversations, really. Which makes it more honest and reliable as the act of observing cannot affect the observed. Who’s, you know, dead. so you have documentation that they admit they started wars on false pretenses? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1259 "2015-10-27T01:53:05Z")
While I cannot say that I find your arguments compelling or insightful, I commend you on your faultless typing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1260 "2015-10-27T02:00:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > so you have documentation that they admit they started wars on false pretenses? This is silly. Why are you ascribing “false pretenses” to actions about which you clearly know nothing. Do you even understand what you are asking? What do you believe they did vs what they said. (You are, at least, aware, I hope, that there was not an Arab/Muslim army that started out from Arabia and swept into Spain. The Muslim forces that eventually conquered Iberia were the result of multiple kingdoms expanding on their individual borders. In North Africa, they were generally extending their territory over lands originally held by the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) empire with whom the Arabs had been at war since the conquest of the Arabian peninsula and their thrust into the Levant. So the conquests tended to be an extension of an existing conflict. Such wars were typical of any conflict between new empires and aging empires. What makes you think that anyone lied about their intentions?) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1261 "2015-10-27T02:02:37Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I don’t need to 😃 > > In a religious war it is generally assumed that the combatants are fighting at the behest of their diety Which is a ridiculous assumption as any study of the religious wars of Europe demonstrate. (And rarely did anyone fight over their diets.) And why do you presume that the conquest of North Africa was a “religious” war? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=64)