# If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741 "2015-09-11T23:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1322 "2015-10-27T20:58:24Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, if my father beats me and my mom and my siblings without mercy on a daily basis… and can justify it through some twisted set of rules… but he writes 117 essays on peace and non violence… which of these two contradicting philosophies do we pay the most attention to? Is America evil, **Robert163**? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1323 "2015-10-27T21:02:10Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > Please refer to all my previous posts in this thread. Thanks. In which you say: Well lots of other people were bad/evil and Mohammed was even slightly less bad/evil than most of them. Which is fine, so far as it goes. But you must stop there. Your next sentence can not be about how he was a man of peace when he was bad/evil just like everyone else 1400 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1324 "2015-10-27T21:03:10Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > Is America evil, **Robert163**? Yes, unequivocally yes. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1325 "2015-10-27T21:03:37Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > In which you say: > > Well lots of other people were bad/evil and Mohammed was even slightly less bad evil than most of them. Which is fine, so far as it goes. But you must stop there. Your next sentence can not be about how he was a man of peace when he was bad/evil just like everyone else 1400 years ago. Your description of my position changes between your first sentence and your last sentence there. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1326 "2015-10-27T21:15:27Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > Tails I win, heads you lose. Muslims evil, muslims evil, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1327 "2015-10-27T21:16:33Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > Your description of my position changes between your first sentence and your last sentence there. Or, you could just state whether you think murder, rape, genocide and slavery are evil… instead of refusing to comment and then criticizing me because I have mischaracterized your past comments. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1328 "2015-10-27T21:18:38Z")
Evil evil evil Muslims why are you evil evil evil evil? and when did you stop beating your spouses and when did you start believing in Evil! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1329 "2015-10-27T21:18:51Z")
So, anyway, Christians are pretty much everywhere just as materialistic and money-grubbing as their counterparts in other religions, despite their sacred text explicitly condemning it. So then, we may conclude that the fundamental scripture of a religion does not necessarily compel its adherents to obedience. Except for Muslims, who are uniquely bound to such obedience? Well, OK, why? Is it genetic? No, the original adherents were all of a similar ethnic derivation, what we call “Arab” these days, but many of them now are Indonesian, amongst others. Does the Koran possess some magical authority that compels obedience? Dangerous ground to tread upon, it implies Authority beyond simple authority. So, what is it, then? If it simply a matter of scriptural power, then all Muslims would be equally violent and aggressive. And if it is a matter of choice and free will, then the postulate of scriptural authority goes right out the window. Personally, I strongly lean towards that second position, but if **Robert** can offer a plausible reason why the Koran has a magical power that the Christian Scripture or the Torah do not possess, I am willing to listen, if only for the prospect of being astounded. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1330 "2015-10-27T21:22:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Look, I understand you are wrapped up in this debate and you are probably stuck on a POV. You probably won’t admit it, that’s ok, it is a general principle and I am not blaming you for it, only saying that happens sometimes in a debate. Paging Dr. Freud… > [@](#): > > So, I am going to give you a chance to think about whether you really want to make the assertion that 532 passages of direct or implied violence is “not enough” to constitute a violent mentality. Again, numbers and statistics are utterly meaningless in the abstract. It’s OK to not understand this. I won’t blame you for it. Statistics are finicky stuff. That’s why you’ll never hear the end of professional statisticians’ grousing about their use (and utter dumbing down) in the news. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1331 "2015-10-27T21:36:53Z")
Oh, but that explains it! Yes, there are texts in Christian Scripture than condemn materialism, but there aren’t five hundred thirty two of them! If there were five hundred thirty two, it would be different! ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1332 "2015-10-27T21:49:33Z")
What about implied? Have you considered the implied??? Remember, evil. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1333 "2015-10-27T21:50:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, anyway, Christians are pretty much everywhere just as materialistic and money-grubbing as their counterparts in other religions, despite their sacred text explicitly condemning it. So then, we may conclude that the fundamental scripture of a religion does not necessarily compel its adherents to obedience. Except for Muslims, who are uniquely bound to such obedience? Well, OK, why? > > Is it genetic? No, the original adherents were all of a similar ethnic derivation, what we call “Arab” these days, but many of them now are Indonesian, amongst others. Does the Koran possess some magical authority that compels obedience? Dangerous ground to tread upon, it implies Authority beyond simple authority. > > So, what is it, then? If it simply a matter of scriptural power, then all Muslims would be equally violent and aggressive. And if it is a matter of choice and free will, then the postulate of scriptural authority goes right out the window. Personally, I strongly lean towards that second position, but if **Robert** can offer a plausible reason why the Koran has a magical power that the Christian Scripture or the Torah do not possess, I am willing to listen, if only for the prospect of being astounded. No, of course not. People are flawed, at the best end of the equation, and downright manipulative and dishonest and self serving at the worst end of the equation. This is why the “bad” parts of the Koran are more problematic than the good ones. As to why the Jews have rejected the violent proclamations of the OT, IDK, from my understanding there was consensus at some point among Jewish scholars, Lay people and bureaucrats that they would reject those passages, a consensus that was in place almost 1000 years before Mohammed was even born… but there has never been any such universal consensus in the Muslim world. If, you wish to assert, that Islam is as bad now as Judiasim was 4000 years ago, or christinaity was 100 years ago… then that means it too must be retrofitted and adapt to the modern age. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1334 "2015-10-27T21:55:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Paging Dr. Freud… > > Again, numbers and statistics are utterly meaningless in the abstract. > It’s OK to not understand this. I won’t blame you for it. Statistics are finicky stuff. That’s why you’ll never hear the end of professional statisticians’ grousing about their use (and utter dumbing down) in the news. Look, this is absurd. First you claim my statements are lacking in fact or substance. Then I provide a handfull of passages that point to the core values of Islam as being a violent religion. Then you pick one of those handfull of passages and attempt to tell me how I misinterpret it. Then… much later… I say in fact, there are 532 such passages. And now you are telling me 532 such passages are not enough to justify my claim. Please, step back, look at your statements, and you will see how absurd they are. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1335 "2015-10-27T22:03:16Z")
Did anyone realize that robert knows in his heart of hearts that the muslims and the islam are evil, and wants everyone to know this? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1336 "2015-10-27T22:12:19Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Did anyone realize that robert knows in his heart of hearts that the muslims and the islam are evil, and wants everyone to know this? I’m going to ask you to quit saying this. I’ve never said any such thing. I think the religion is evil. Many of it’s followers are evil. They were probably bad people who got corrupted into becoming evil by the influence of a book that advocates rape, murder, theft, genocide and slavery… but I’ve never said all Muslims were evil. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1337 "2015-10-27T22:15:50Z")
Ah we did not notice you think the Islam and the muslims are evil. And there is implied evil in several hundred words. thank you for being so clear. oh and the muslim women not working too. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1338 "2015-10-27T22:16:51Z")
Remember the evil. ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1339 "2015-10-27T22:45:46Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > _I think the religion is evil. Many of it’s followers are evil_. Tell us all what your definition of this “religion” is-? next Tell us all what your definition of this “evil” is-? Or you can just say “I don’t have a clue” ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1340 "2015-10-27T22:55:27Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > Tell us all what your definition of this “religion” is-? > next > Tell us all what your definition of this “evil” is-? > > Or you can just say “I don’t have a clue” Any religion that advocates murder, theft, slavery and genocide is going to be evil. Judiasim, back in the day of Moses and David, was evil. The Aztecs, cutting people open and pulling out their hearts, was evil. Mohammed, murdering people for land and taking slaves and raping women, was evil. To whatever degree a Muslim, today, in 2015 has distanced themself from that, that precise distance, is the exact distance said Muslim has separated themself from, eivl. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741/1341 "2015-10-27T23:01:37Z")
There is but [one true understanding and it is the evil](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18809140&postcount=109) … in any case between these two threads it is possible to come to an understanding of the definition of the word futility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-radical-islam-is-violent-due-to-culture-and-not-religion/730741.md?page=68)