One thing I’ve often wondered is the general idea that when debating the atrocities of Christianity and Islam, to use the Christianity side you go back thousands of years.
To be very truthful, I am unconcerned what happened 1000 years ago in the name of God. (for either party)
I am very concerned that it is happening today, right now.
No, I’m saying the Taliban, and groups like that, are the only ones still killing and terrorizing people and I’m getting really really really tired of defending myself to people like you for having the “audacity” to point that out. Really tired.
And I don’t even think one of the “good” muslim countries is that great a place to live, if you are a homosexual, a female, an atheist. I’d not want to be in any of those categories and live in Turkey or Tunisia or Egypt.
Can we — please — stop pretending that all religions are equally bad. Because they CLEARLY are not.
If you were a homosexual female atheist, where would you rather live? In Cairo Egypt or Cincinnati Ohio?
Can we PLEASE for just one moment have an honest admission that it would be a lot better in Cincinnati?
Still haven’t figured out that you’ve been losing this debate for the last eight pages? Well, thank God your doing it on the other side of a topic from me, for a change.
Incidentally, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t use my demographic as a promotional tool for your bigotry.
Which ones, specifically, if you please ?
You do realize that (assuming you’re American) you’re sitting on an entire continent that was taken by force, terrorism and a side helping of deliberate biological warfare. And I’m not talking “back in the 7th century when nobody could even read”, either.
All done by good, devout, educated Christians.
I’d also point, for added cheeky factor, that none of the various waves of medieval Islamic expansion claimed they were doing it for Allah or as part of a jihad/holy war. They did not have the gall to invent themselves a Manifest Destiny granted by Divine Providence as justification for doing so, either ;).
Cincinnati - hands down. So what are you proving? I would prefer a secular nation over a religious one. I would prefer an industrialized Western nation over a developing country.
If you want to be fair, compare one African metropolis to another. Would you rather be in Cairo or in Lagos? Not so sure anymore?
Then how about Asia: Is Bangkok better than Jakarta?
Even Europe: Would you rather be a homosexual in Istanbul or Moscow?
You keep claiming that Islam is evil. It is really, really, really important for you to get that message across - even though you have little more than a few belligerent phrases in a very old book to prove it. May I ask, why this is so important to you?
So you admit that a secular nation would be better than a religious one and yet you still want to chastise me for having an anti religious agenda. That seems a bit inconsistent to me. And I guess that is what bothers me, there are some serious problems with religion. Granted, a lot of my complaints are petty and biased. I’m honest enough to admit that. But at the same time this idea that I’m not supposed to criticize religion or pretend like the situation is not as bad as it actually is, well, that bothers me. I grew up in an overbearing religious climate, well, at least for the USA I did, and I find myself in similar type of situation today, the “deep south”. It’s annoying really.
Robert163, What is your current and updated position now that you have had access to new information and a lengthy discussion on the subject? Has it altered, and if so, in what way?
Where do I “chastise” you for being critical of religion?
Throughout this thread you have singled out *one *religion as the target of your attacks while defending the others. So if you claim that I or others in this thread had indicated that you are “not supposed to criticize religion”, you are not as honest as you pretend to be.
My position hasn’t really altered. I can’t think of any “good” muslim country I would want to live in, being a non muslim and an atheist and an outspoken person. I mean, Turkey, Egypt, somewhere like that. And I — know — I wouldn’t want to live in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. What’s more, I think 90%, or more, of the people disagreeing with me would say Cincinnati Ohio is a better place to live than Cairo Egypt for an Atheist. Or a woman. I think I’m about the only person on here being honest really. To clarify, most people would agree Cincinnati is better but those same people seem to have some issue with me pointing this out.
What I can admit is that I have a bias, an agenda and a bad attitude about the situation.
No, actually, I’m very critical of christianity at other points on other topics. It’s the idea that “all religions are equally bad” that bothers me. If all religions - aren’t - equally bad then why did you admit it would be better to live in Cincinnati? If they were exactly the same you could move anywhere in the world and expect the conditions to be the same, right?
So after getting plenty of (for you) new information and losing the debate for 8 pages, you have not altered your position.
Is there any point in discussing this issue with you, do you think?
Wrong. You have not been reading my post. (You said you are tired. It is showing.)
I prefer Cincinnati over Cairo, because I prefer North America over Africa. Simple as that. I do not distinguish Christian Africa from Muslim Africa when it comes to that question.
no <snip>
Well - I suppose you would not want to debate a dishonest person - as I would not want to debate someone who calls me dishonest. So I am out.
Yes but the comparison is between Cincinnati and Cairo, not two places in Africa.
Put another way, you don’t think the difference between Cincinnati and Cairo is affected by (1) a different religion and (2)differing levels of religiosity
I understand your point about a modern cosmopolitan area vs living way out in the woods somewhere…
My frustration was not really directed at you per se, I find you to be a lot easier to talk to than most of the other people responding.
Ok so going by what you say you have a bias, an agenda and you are not willing to alter your position even when faced with new information or superior arguments. And you also think that you are the only honest person in the discussion.
I wish you would have stated that in the OP so I could have saved myself the effort I put into actually having a discussion. Please consider being more forthright in the future, especially since you consider yourself to be “honest”.
really?
where would you rather live if you were an atheist? Cincinnati? Or Cairo?