If radical Islam is violent due to culture and not religion

Great Debates
1442

yes.

It is one, highlighting your ignorant cherry picking and bigotted misrepresentations.

Like your idiotic and non factual assertion about muslim majority countries and laws on blasphemy as covered in the other thread for religious bigots to howl on about the Evil Other.

I live my life like ordinary people and do not pretend that all of the Buddhists or all the Hindus or all the white american evangelical protestants have nasty beliefs about something I care or not care about. Since I know that pretending to such is simply the clothes of bigotry and hatred.

yes I am sure the magical dropping of moto cross ninjas has changed the DAESH… ah no it was the Kurdish and the supporting advisors…

it is fun to have magical thinking I guess, just like american action movies.

1443

So you essentially admit that you have no willingness and/or ability to respond to the fact that an alarmingly high percentage of Muslims endorse executing people for abandoning their religion? Got it.

1444

I see frequent references to polls showing support for the death penalty for apostasy and blasphemy. What I do not see are lots of laws in the countries where majorities “support” such laws. In the few countries where such laws are on the books, such laws are rarely enforced, and then, nearly always by some clown out in the boondocks who has a personal grudge against the person accused.

Claiming that so many people “favor” laws that they have the power to institute and enforce, but which they do not, strongly suggests that the polls are not actually demonstrating much beyond a notion that the respondents are giving the pollsters what the respondents think they want to hear while not actually believing their own answers.

1445

A poster here posted:

*Anyone who peddles the concept of ‘true Islam’ – just like any other religion – no matter how peaceful and tolerant their version of Islam might be, inadvertently gives credence to the likes of *ISIS.
*

Russian writer and political activist: Mossad training ISIS terrorists in Iraq, Syria *

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Top-Pu … ria-383964

Edward Snowden Reveals* ISIS** Leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi Trained By Israeli Mossad (Video)
Wednesday, July 16, 2014 13:10*

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 … 93768.html

ISIS* leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is a Jewish Mossad Agent
“sraeli” secret intelligence service”*

1446

Or

It could be just like in the USA.

How many people will vote for capital punishment? How many would actually “pull the switch” on the electric chair, if that switch were in their hand and they had the power to choose not to pull it and the criminal was pleading for his life? Far more would vote for it, I propose, than would actually do it. But, it speaks to the overall mentality of the nation. That, in theory, they support such an action.

Stoning and beheadings in the middle east as part of legal punishment are RARE. Very rare. There are cases where it is on the books, or is handed down as a sentence but the sentence is not carried out. There are a few cases where people are put to death by stoning. Wikipedia is not the best source but since it supports the idea that actual stonings are rare, maybe we will accept it as a source here.

The point, I think, is it has to be a brutal minded society to even contemplate the idea of stoning… and yes, The USA has the death penalty too, but, that is not sanctioned by both God and the State, only, the State.

1447

i am addressing this post to you because you are a moderator. Do you feel that I am spamming and if so for my sake please define “spamming”

1448

If I thought you were spamming, I would already have given you a Mod Note or a Warning. I am not sure why you are asking the question.

I am not sure that you and this board are a good fit; your posts come across as a bit odd or off-topic, but I do not regard you as a spammer.

1449

It’s always going to be trouble,. no matter what it is.

1450

It’s always going to be trouble,. no matter what it is.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(15)01167-7.pdf

1451

Your link is incorrect on The Guardian, this is the correct link

This here

it does not impress me.

I am secular and if the claim were true it would even please me.

But I do not think this type of study is actually good science, it seems to me essentialising concepts that need to be understood and ignoring economical (the ‘religious’ versus ‘non religious’ household for example seems to have been on some self-identification and it does not seem to have any attempt to explore the potential effects of the wealth or or other correlating effecting variables if I have not missed anything. I also find it questoinable to look at the idea of the Christian and the Muslim and the Non Religious as if a Western european christian is the same as a South African colored christian in their sense of religiousity etc. - I would not assume this at all).

It would not surprise me at all if it ends up being true that the religious who are also from the more stressed economic backgrounds end up being more judgemental and more harsh. It would fit with other behaviour.

but I would want to know about the concept of the ‘religious’ more deeply.

1452

I agree that there are a lot of potential confounds, and certainly one research project is never definitive. It does, however, provide a basis for further research.

As to the self-identification, you’re right: that’s a difficult thing. From the paper:

(My emphasis.)

So as is typical with science reporting, the Guardian does not report the findings *quite *accurately. What the researchers found is not a link between “being mean” and religion, but being mean and living in a religious-identified household.

Subtle difference, but important to the science.
.

1453

To be fair to the Guardian, the abstract is also inaccurately written IMO.

1454

I closed a similar thread yesterday. If this one goes in a similar direction I’ll close this one, too.

1455

If?

1456

I think it is typical of a kind of the social science research that makes the assumptions unexamined about even the category of concept that it is supposed to examine.

It is assuming in talking of the christians (I can not believe that the religiousity of a colored cape christian can be assumed without examination to have the same meaning as a white european canadian) or the non religious (for example) that there is some homogeneity, and it is not examining the important factor if the religious identification is associated with other factors, as the economic status.

I do not think one can conclude anything from this although I could suspect real association. but this seems too flawed to me.

1457

You speak of “real association” so I ask, do you see any real association in the following:

Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them

read more: Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them - Haaretz Com - Haaretz.com

*In a rare interview to the Israeli media just a month before he steps down from his current post, Pizzaballa cautioned Israelis over how Christians are treated here. “When you say ‘Christianity’ to the Israelis,” he said, “they immediately think of the Holocaust and the [Spanish] Inquisition. People don’t know that we are here and that we have roots [here],” adding that this attitude is reflected throughout Israeli society.

In a reference to the long-standing, continual incidents of Orthodox Jewish extremists in Jerusalem spitting at Christian clergy, Pizzaballa said: “When I came to the country, I was told that I should know that if I walk around with a frock in the city [of Jerusalem], people would spit on me, and I shouldn’t be offended, it’s normal.”*
read more: Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz Com - Haaretz.com

Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily

read more: Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily - Haaretz Com - Haaretz.com

Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem

http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/being-spat-on-remains-part-of-life-for-christians-in-jerusalem/

raymie says:
god doesn’t exist.
the christians hate the jews because their religion teaches them they killed jesus.
also, the jews stubbornly reject jesus as messiah. antisemitism comes from christianity, nowhere else. The bible is a myth which tries to explain why the jews aren’t rulers of the world, even though their god created everything. you can’t see any of this because you have an agenda. hitler picked up antisemitism from christianity, as did the muslims. in the muslims’ case, it was exacerbated by the creation of Israel
http://talk.notthetalk.com/discussion/list/3724?start=111

semblance says:

It strikes as being bleedin’ obvious where anti-semitism comes from. It comes from a natural distrust of a small insular community which has power, wealth and influence out of all proportion to it’s size.
http://tinyurl.com/9l6pjab

raymie says: *christians hate the jews because their religion teaches them they killed jesus. also, the jews stubbornly reject jesus as messiah. antisemitism comes from christianity, nowhere else. even though their god created everything.
hitler picked up antisemitism from christianity *

Raymie, semblance and the spitters all have something in common. Care to state what that is-?

1458

I see a long list of some anecdotes, quotes from the news. Anecdotes are not science.

my comments were about the article and the science.

1459

There aren’t any lengthy threads on this message board that stay any more directly on topic than therobust discussion you intervened upon yesterday. Not only was the discussion shut down, but even* the discussion of why the discussion was shut down was terminated*. The reason is obvious: ignorance can be fought on SDMB only until it is the ignorance of the moderators that is being laid bare, as clearly was happening in that thread. Examples include Tomndebb claiming that only Islamophobes call Islam a “religion of peace”, and Monty making the bizarre claim that text must be “magical” in order to be influential. The refutations of these claims were not responded to except by mod warnings and the eventual closing of the thread. What is happening here is obvious.

1460

That’s enough.

Time out. Separate corners. Take a few days off and come back with better debating skills.