# If Republicans only care about the rich... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759 "2011-08-06T18:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/101 "2011-08-07T20:17:26Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I find it hard to believe you know how to read at all. Save the rude personal commentary for the Pit. It doesn’t belong in Great Debates or any other forum. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/102 "2011-08-07T20:20:53Z")
You know, **OMG,** I think you are suffering from a poor choice of username. It implies, rather aggressively, that you expect someone to reel away in astonishment and dismay that a black could be a conservative, or vice versa. Which might have been true some time in the distant past. Herman Cain is both black and conservative, and regrettably prominent. I don’t expect I know anything more about you because you share a skin tone with Mr Cain, and I have every reason to believe you make better pizza, seeing as you can type. We are not flabbergasted, I frankly doubt if an eyebrow would be raised. So, anyway, you started out left-footed. And, of course, we can’t see you. Just as you can’t see us. In my case, this is a positive boon to the general welfare. But in yours, it leaves sort of a blank. Clearly, you are conservative, but how are we to know that you’re, in fact, black? Perhaps more importantly, can you offer us any reason to care? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/103 "2011-08-07T22:31:14Z")
> [@](#): > > But you know what? People refusing to acknowledge those things which don’t benefit them is par for the course for this board. I’d laugh if it wasn’t so damn sad. Apparently when faced with stuff that doesn’t conform to your worldview, the best course of action is to stick your finger in your ear, scream “la la la!” at the top of your lungs and claim that the information you’ve been given is biased. Kettle, meet the black conservative pot. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/104 "2011-08-07T23:34:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [QUOTE=Sam Stone] > I didn’t say I was a Republican, or that I supported Republicans. So how have generic “right wing” parties served these goals better? [/QUOTE] By not actually existing. It deflects criticism by relegating all _actual_ right wing groups and people to the status of being “Not True Scotsmen”. Considering their track record that’s useful for someone trying to argue in favor of right wing polices. > [@elucidator](#): > > But so are they all. We made them up, “rights” are the unsupported dogma of our democratic creed. “We hold these truths to be self-evident” is Tommy Jefferson’s educated way of saying “We’re making shit up, fuck no we can’t prove it, ain’t gonna try. Take it or leave it.” > > There is no right to health care, and there is no right to private property. Which is to say, the right of a collective need to impinge itself on your private property is precisely the same as your right to keep it. Zilch, zero, zip, nada damn thing. > > Now, if you care to, you can express your secular dogma as such, as your bald assertion having no more weight than mine or anyone else’s. Just so long as you don’t try to pretend otherwise. Actually such ideals are easy enough to justify; just tack on “because they make life better for everyone”. The problem the right has is that they can’t use that justification because their ideals don’t make life better for everyone. At best they help a privileged minority at the expense of everyone else, and often they help no one at all. Who benefits from same sex marriage being illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/105 "2011-08-07T23:35:28Z")
“The Conservative Media always tell the truth!” “What? Who told you that?” “The Conservative Media.” “And you believed it?” “Of course. The Conservative Media always tell the truth!” Hard to break through something like that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/106 "2011-08-08T00:02:29Z")
OMG has gone way over his head. The sad fact is the Republican policies are one sided. The tax cuts for the rich happened. The fact that they will fight to the death to keep them in place. He probably has not noticed that the deficits would be much, muck lower without the tax cut. Then they have the nerve to complain about deficits. The Repubs are for cutting unemployment when their party is responsible for it. They want to kill welfare . They want to kill public schools. They are slashing money to the public defenders. Why does anyone think the Repubs only care about the rich? Because they prove it every day. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/107 "2011-08-08T01:26:47Z")
I’m still unclear why Reagan is idolized - government certainly didn’t shrink under his watch. He _said_ he wanted to eliminate the Department of Education, among others (and thus began a sequence of events that would lead to Anita Hill’s testimony) but he failed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/108 "2011-08-08T02:14:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m still unclear why Reagan is idolized - government certainly didn’t shrink under his watch. He _said_ he wanted to eliminate the Department of Education, among others (and thus began a sequence of events that would lead to Anita Hill’s testimony) but he failed to do so. “Reality has a well known liberal bias.” They aren’t paying attention to what he _actually_ did, only to the mythology they’ve created about him. Willful ignorance and self delusion are core values of the Right. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/109 "2011-08-08T02:42:00Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Edit: And gozomax’s post is full of half-truths, distortions and outright lies. You are not clear whether you are accusing **gonzomax** or his sources of being dishonest. [You are not to accuse other posters of lying in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632) and the next time you are in any way unclear about whom you are accusing of dishonesty, I will presume that you meant the poster and you will be Warned. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/110 "2011-08-08T04:03:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are not clear whether you are accusing **gonzomax** or his sources of being dishonest. > > [You are not to accuse other posters of lying in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632) and the next time you are in any way unclear about whom you are accusing of dishonesty, I will presume that you meant the poster and you will be Warned. > > [/Moderating] If pointing out the truth is deserving of a warning, then I guess I deserve a warning. It’s amazing to me just how much the liberal/Democratic leaning persons can get away with, especially when it comes to making assertions (1) without tiniest bit of evidence or (2) that are so blatantly false on their faces, that one can only wonder how they can get away with making them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/111 "2011-08-08T12:27:42Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > If pointing out the truth is deserving of a warning, then I guess I deserve a warning. Why limit yourself? You can get warnings for lots of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/112 "2011-08-08T12:33:18Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > It’s amazing to me just how much the liberal/Democratic leaning persons can get away with, especially when it comes to making assertions (1) without tiniest bit of evidence or (2) that are so blatantly false on their faces, that one can only wonder how they can get away with making them. Eye. Mote. Log. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/113 "2011-08-08T13:57:21Z")
By this point, one wishes for a return to the “Republicans who only care about the rich.” Instead the cynics and hypocrites have launched a political Frankenstein which will harm all Americans, rich and poor. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Two responses and two “Because people are stupid!” type responses. Can’t say I’m surprised. :rolleyes: 😕 😕 But what if that’s the correct answer? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/114 "2011-08-08T14:33:30Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > When the lies come the Republican leaders and are amplified by the (non-liberal) media why do you have to assume \*\*Lobohan \*\*is reaching for the “because people are stupid” point? Because his response has to assume that people will believe anything told to them. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/115 "2011-08-08T16:44:37Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Because his response has to assume that people will believe anything told to them. There is evidence that this happens. - [Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/four-americans-believe-strict-creationism.aspx) - Barack Obama’s release of his long-form birth certificate in late April appears to have removed some – but not all – doubt among Americans about where the president was born. More Americans now say he was definitely born in the United States (47%) than did so before its release (38%) and they are joined by 18% who say this is probably the case. Significantly fewer – but still 13% – say he was probably or definitely born in another country. ([cite](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147530/Obama-Birth-Certificate-Convinces-Not-Skeptics.aspx)) - [41 percent believe in death panels.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Poll_41_percent_believe_in_death_panels.html#) - [Republicans Think Obama ‘Probably’ Wants To Impose Islamic Law.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/newsweek-poll-republicans-think-obama-probably-wants-to-impose-islamic-law.php) Bet we can come up with more if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/116 "2011-08-08T16:55:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There is evidence that this happens. > > - [Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/four-americans-believe-strict-creationism.aspx) > > - Barack Obama’s release of his long-form birth certificate in late April appears to have removed some – but not all – doubt among Americans about where the president was born. More Americans now say he was definitely born in the United States (47%) than did so before its release (38%) and they are joined by 18% who say this is probably the case. Significantly fewer – but still 13% – say he was probably or definitely born in another country. ([cite](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147530/Obama-Birth-Certificate-Convinces-Not-Skeptics.aspx)) > > - [41 percent believe in death panels.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Poll_41_percent_believe_in_death_panels.html#) > > - [Republicans Think Obama ‘Probably’ Wants To Impose Islamic Law.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/newsweek-poll-republicans-think-obama-probably-wants-to-impose-islamic-law.php) > > Bet we can come up with more if you want. What are we trying to prove? That people will believe stuff or that you need to assume that those people will believe. There is the distinction. If you assume that people will believe anything you tell them then you are saying “They are stupid, they need my help” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/117 "2011-08-08T17:02:23Z")
Is there an agreed-upon estimated figure of Americans who are offended by the concept of critical thinking? Looks like it’s 40%, assuming that the 40% that keep showing up in these polls are the same exact people. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/118 "2011-08-08T17:09:27Z")
The wealth gap between blacks and whites is at the highest since tracking began 3 decades ago. The financial programs , starting since Reagan, are eroding the position and security of the weaker citizens. I suppose OMG lives in a conclave immune to republican policy. But a lot of us do not. Their policies have real and serious impact on our lives and have more and worse plans for the future. The Repubs redistributed the wealth of the country, putting the bulk in the hands of the rich and powerful. They continue on that path today. i wonder what their vision of America is? Do they see a plutocratic society that they can run as a good end? Are they willing to face the consequences of a huge downtrodden lower class? Union busting, killing social programs, attacking government workers, ending medicare and Social security, slashing unemployment, and so many other measures will result in severe ugliness. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/119 "2011-08-08T17:11:18Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > That people will believe stuff or that you need to assume that those people will believe. > There is the distinction. > If you assume that people will believe anything you tell them then you are saying “They are stupid, they need my help” I do not need to “assume” people will believe crazy things. I think the evidence speaks for itself that people do this…a lot of people do it and by-and-large they are conservatives. It matters because these people help sway public policy so it affects not just them but the entire country. If someone wants to believe some craziness on their own fine…I do not care. I do care when a patently false idea is used to sway public policy. A difference of opinion is fine, even a good thing, if the two sides are using normal rules of evidence for holding a given position. When one side is insisting that 2+2=5 and insists on their version of reality we have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759/120 "2011-08-08T17:12:49Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Then why do Republicans tends to fair better at the national level than Democrats or Democrats not fair as well as you would expect them to? > > Only looking at the Federal level, since 1980, Republicans have won five out of eight presidential elections (1980, 1984, 1988, 2000 and 2004). When it comes to Congress they have had split control four times and outright control six times, whereas Democrats have had split control four times and outright control seven times.\* > > Those two outcomes fly in the face of the whole “Republicans only care about the rich” mantra. Presumably, there aren’t that many “rich” people in the U.S., so someone who isn’t “rich” votes for Republicans. The question I want to know is what your (preferably the Democrats/liberal leaning folks) opinion as to why this is. > > \*I’m not including the 107th Congress. > > Edit: Also, let’s keep the “Because people are stupid/sheep!” comments to a minimum, okay? They win elections because they appeal to people through other issues. Like immigration, race, patriotism, tax cuts and so on. Under Bush Congess was tagged as a do-nothing Congress, the GOP-controlled congessional agenda was as follows : Tax cuts Flag burning amendment An immigration law that they knew Democrats would oppose Terry Shiavo Gay marriage partial birth abortion Basically nothing constructive whatsoever. All the legislation was designed to cause a split between the two parties and the wider public, and this was to create the situation, in the words of Karl Rove, where GOP voters “were reminded which side they were on.” The modern GOP doesn’t exist for anything other than getting tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations and creating new and exciting corporate welfare opportunities. They get their votes by appealing to voters on social issues like abortion, racism, hatred of gays etc. That’s how they roll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-republicans-only-care-about-the-rich/591759.md?page=7)