# If Rosemary Kennedy never had the lobotomy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696 "2014-09-27T02:48:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/1 "2014-09-27T02:48:36Z")
If she had never undergone such a unnecessary (IMO) procedure, how would her life had played out? Could she have lived semi-independently? Be it in a group home, with her family, or even on her own with proper supports? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/2 "2014-09-27T06:10:31Z")
It would depend on whether her family could afford home care. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/3 "2014-09-27T15:51:06Z")
I think that’s a question only Rosemary’s doctors could have answered for sure. She was said to have an IQ of 60-70 (equivalent to a mental age between 8-12). However, she did begin to experience more mood swings and violent outbursts as she got older, which is why her father wanted the lobotomy. With proper treatment and medication, who knows what her life could have been. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/4 "2014-09-27T16:33:03Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > It would depend on whether her family could afford home care. I’m pretty sure her folks could scratch up enough. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/5 "2014-09-27T16:41:39Z")
In her teens she was clearly mentally retarded, but she did O.K. for someone with an I.Q. something like 60 to 70. She was also said to be very beautiful, and her father arranged for her to be presented at the court while he was American ambassador to the U.K. In her early twenties she began have mood swings. Her father decided to have her lobotomized to see if that would help. Lobotomies were still only rarely tried then. It basically destroyed her. She died in 2005 at 86. There’s a possibility that new drugs known today might have fixed her mood swings: > **[Rosemary Kennedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy)** > > Rose Marie "Rosemary" Kennedy (September 13, 1918 – January 7, 2005) was the eldest daughter born to Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. and Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy. She was a sister of President John F. Kennedy and Senators Robert F. and Ted Kennedy. > In her early young adult years, Rosemary Kennedy experienced seizures and violent mood swings. In response to these issues, her father arranged a prefrontal lobotomy for her in 1941 when she was 23 years of age; the procedure left her permanently incapacitated... ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/6 "2014-09-27T16:54:27Z")
One of the problems with the _procedure_ is that the two surgeons were winging it to some extent, learning on the job: \* After Rosemary was mildly sedated, “We went through the top of the head,” Dr. Watts recalled. “I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch.” The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary questions. For example, he would ask her to recite the Lord’s Prayer or to sing “God Bless America” or to count backwards. As he cut, her pulse became more rapid, and her blood pressure rose. “We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded,” Dr. Watts said. “I would make the incisions, and Dr. Freeman would estimate how much to cut as she talked. He talked to her. He would say that’s enough.” When she began to become incoherent, they stopped.\* **[Rosemary Kennedy’s Inconvenient Illness](http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Rosemary-Kennedy/2008/06/17/id/324146/)** ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-rosemary-kennedy-never-had-the-lobotomy/699696/7 "2014-09-27T16:56:13Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I’m pretty sure her folks could scratch up enough. wwhhhhhooooooossssshhhhh