# 'If science gives you a result you don't like, pass a law making the result illegal' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 2, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229 "2012-08-02T22:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/1 "2012-08-02T22:56:36Z")
[Linky](http://news.yahoo.com/law-north-carolina-bans-latest-scientific-predictions-sea-165416121--abc-news-topstories.html). And [another](http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-usa-environmentnorthcarolinal2e8j1kfe-20120801,0,1506295.story). In brief, the North Carolina General Assembly has passed a law that places a four-year moratorium on changing the state’s policy on, and planning for, sea level changes. That’s rather odd given their state’s substantial and low-lying coastline; one might have expected the North Carolina legislators to welcome any new ‘scientifically valid’ data or information regarding sea level changes. Alas, the new law restricts all sea-level predictions used to guide state policies for the next four years to those based on “historical data”. In other words, ‘don’t bother us with data that we (and our good friends, the coastal developers) don’t want to hear’. As Stephen Colbert was quoted to say, “If your science gives you a result you don’t like, pass a law saying the result is illegal. Problem solved.” ETA: Oops . . . I forgot to say that as an outside observer (I’m Canadian), I continue to be astounded by the current American epidemic of partisan subversion of reality-based solutions for reality-based problems. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/2 "2012-08-02T23:05:23Z")
I’m sure they can hold their next vote on repealing the law in their new underwater state capital building. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/3 "2012-08-02T23:11:22Z")
‘If politically motivated morons give an absurd prediction, pass a law to ignore it.’ Fixed that title for you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/4 "2012-08-02T23:18:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As Stephen Colbert was quoted to say, “If your science gives you a result you don’t like, pass a law saying the result is illegal. Problem solved.” Hey, it worked for evolution. > [@](#): > > ETA: Oops . . . I forgot to say that as an outside observer (I’m Canadian), I continue to be astounded by the current American epidemic of partisan subversion of reality-based solutions for reality-based problems. I’m amazed that you forgot to say that. Isn’t self-righteousness a Canadian genetic trait? ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/5 "2012-08-02T23:18:54Z")
And in all seriousness, predicting sea level rise for 100 years out is incredibly difficult, and is not by any means empirical science. This isn’t like defining pi to be “3”. While I’m sure the real estate lobby helped get this passed, it’s not at all unreasonable for a legislature to ignore the predictions in view of current interests, even if the predictions were well founded (which I don’t think they are, but you’d obviously disagree). In a case like sea level rise, anything that happens is going to be slow. If 2040 rolls around and the ocean has already gone up 10 inches, North Carolina can start worrying then. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/6 "2012-08-02T23:19:18Z")
Ah, the wonderful state of North Carolina. I blame the public schools…there was little to no emphasis on science at the one I attended. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/7 "2012-08-02T23:29:03Z")
I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but could someone explain how this is possible? > [@](#): > > According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), sea level rise along the portion of the East Coast between North Carolina and Massachusetts is accelerating at three to four times the global rate. A USGS report published in the journal Nature Climate Change in June predicted that sea level along the coast of that region, which it called a “hotspot,” would rise up to 11.4 inches higher than the global average rise by the end of the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/8 "2012-08-02T23:30:24Z")
[Perhaps this is how they will react](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IBnfkcrsM) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/9 "2012-08-02T23:39:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [Perhaps this is how they will react](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IBnfkcrsM) Well, at least NC has plenty of Baptists; they can actually sing. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/10 "2012-08-02T23:39:26Z")
**wedgehed** : wind and currents can cause uneven rises and falls of local sea-levels. It violates the old plumbers’ law that “water always seeks its own level,” but on a continental scale, the law doesn’t apply. Fascinating to note that sea level at one end of the Panama Canal is quite a bit lower than at the other. If the canal were simply a ditch, there would be a very strong current flowing through it! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/11 "2012-08-02T23:45:57Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **wedgehed** : wind and currents can cause uneven rises and falls of local sea-levels. It violates the old plumbers’ law that “water always seeks its own level,” but on a continental scale, the law doesn’t apply. > > Fascinating to note that sea level at one end of the Panama Canal is quite a bit lower than at the other. If the canal were simply a ditch, there would be a very strong current flowing through it! Say! They missed a bet there! It could be a canal **and** a hydroelectric power plant! Which end has the higher sea level, Pacific or Atlantic/Caribbean? (I would guess the Atlantic/Caribbean side, since the Earth turns west-to-east, so the air and water flow/slosh east-to-west.) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/12 "2012-08-02T23:47:10Z")
I believe pi (the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference) was legislated to be equal to 3 at one point in history for convenience sake. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/13 "2012-08-02T23:51:18Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe pi (the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference) was legislated to be equal to 3 at one point in history for convenience sake. [That was proposed, once, but the bill (in Indiana) never passed.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill) (And the proposed _de jure_ value was 3.2 – not [the Biblical 3.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Antiquity)) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/14 "2012-08-03T00:00:25Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but could someone explain how this is possible? > **[North Carolina Lawmakers Turning a Blind Eye to Sea Level Reality?](https://skepticalscience.com/North-Carolina-Lawmakers-Turning-a-Blind-Eye-to-Sea-Level-Reality.html)** > > Ruler of England, Sweden, and Norway at one time, the accomplishments of King Canute (985-1035AD) were many and it seemed to some of his followers that he was all-powerful. In order to dispel such a notion, and to demonstrate the limitations of human... > [@](#): > > Of all the consequences of global warming one might expect that sea level rise, through the contribution of melting land-based ice, would be one of the easiest to grasp. The general outline is very simple; 65-70 metres of future global sea level rise are locked up in the vast Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets and, as the world warms, more land-based ice will melt and end up in the ocean, raising global sea levels. > > But even so, measuring and accounting for sea level change over time is an extraordinarily complex process. Not only do the oceans expand as they warm, but over both short and long time frames regional variation can be quite different to the global average sea level trend. **Such is the case with North Carolina, where the sea would be inundating the coast even without global warming, because the coastline itself is sinking.** I guess \*\*neuroman \*\*thinks that calling scientists morons with no evidence whatsoever is a great point to make, or that the scientists are politically motivated. > **[Blog - The Sea Monster](https://theseamonster.net/blog/)** ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/15 "2012-08-03T00:10:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe pi (the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference) was legislated to be equal to 3 at one point in history for convenience sake. [The Master speaks!](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/818/how-do-scientists-go-about-calculating-pi-to-umpteen-decimal-places) It happened to be on the main page a couple days ago, at that. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/16 "2012-08-03T00:17:52Z")
They can stick their heads in the (fixing to be underwater) sand all they want; insurance companies will still laugh at beach development policy applications before tripling their rates. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/17 "2012-08-03T00:53:12Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > ‘If politically motivated morons give an absurd prediction, pass a law to ignore it.’ > > Fixed that title for you. Except the law was to ignore not just the current “prediction” but ALL NEW DATA regarding water levels around the coast for the next four years\*. And that to you is, what, genius? I’d be careful about slinging that “moron” word around. \*Hmm. I wonder whether that applies to tsunami warnings, too. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/18 "2012-08-03T00:54:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Isn’t self-righteousness a Canadian genetic trait? Well, X-linked dominant, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/19 "2012-08-03T01:19:13Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > ‘If politically motivated morons give an absurd prediction, pass a law to ignore it.’ > > Fixed that title for you. Fucking moron. What evidence do you have that the Coastal Resources Commission is politically motivated? And the prediction is hardly absurd. A 39-inch rise in the next 100 years is actually a pretty conservative prediction. The US National Research Council (which I’m sure dimwits like you believe is politically motivated) estimates sea level rise by the end of this century at between 22 and \*79 \* inches. Actual recent sea level rise has been higher than predictions. > [@neuroman](#): > > And in all seriousness, predicting sea level rise for 100 years out is incredibly difficult, and is not by any means empirical science. This isn’t like defining pi to be “3”. The law apparently doesn’t prohibit using just the 39 inch figure, but **any** projections of future rise based on current data, even the more conservative ones. > [@](#): > > While I’m sure the real estate lobby helped get this passed, it’s not at all unreasonable for a legislature to ignore the predictions in view of current interests, even if the predictions were well founded (which I don’t think they are, but you’d obviously disagree). In a case like sea level rise, anything that happens is going to be slow. If 2040 rolls around and the ocean has already gone up 10 inches, North Carolina can start worrying then. It’s reasonable for the legislature to ignore the science if they want to abdicate any pretense of caring about the future welfare of the state. If sea level has risen 10 inches by 2040 and they haven’t done any planning for it, they are already fucked. While the rise may take place slowly, the most severe consequences are going to take place quickly and over a very short period of time. That kind of rise is going to mean higher storm surges during hurricanes, for one thing. A big hurricane - the kind that may hit every 10 years - hitting the coast when the infrastructure is built to withstand a much lower storm surge would cause enormous devastation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229/20 "2012-08-03T01:38:38Z")
This is North Carolina we’re talking about. They’re still questioning the science of smoking being bad for you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-science-gives-you-a-result-you-dont-like-pass-a-law-making-the-result-illegal/630229.md?page=2)