# If Scotland becomes independent, what will the UK be called? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284 "2014-02-13T22:37:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/81 "2014-02-22T00:42:17Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > When I worked at Queen’s University in Belfast, I remember we had to warn students from China and N. America that if they decided to day trip to Dublin, the Irish police did sometimes stop buses for stop checks. They’d send students who hadn’t applied for a visa to visit Ireland back to the border. > > I also seem to remember that there are border checks at the moment in Scottish ferry ports, for those travelers who wish to enter and illegally settle in the UK not via France but Ireland. They arrive in the south of Ireland, travel north to Belfast, then take the ferry across to Scotland. Yes I recall the Guards doing that around about the year 2000. They dragged a black man from Andersonstown I think off a Belfast-Dublin bus in Louth to the protests of all others present. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/82 "2014-02-22T00:51:09Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > When I worked at Queen’s University in Belfast, I remember we had to warn students from China and N. America that if they decided to day trip to Dublin, the Irish police did sometimes stop buses for stop checks. They’d send students who hadn’t applied for a visa to visit Ireland back to the border. Eh? I thought that the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom were in a common travel area, and that’s one reason why the UK didn’t join the Schengen area. Now, if Ireland _had_ joined Schengen, the Irish immigration checks would make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/83 "2014-02-22T01:39:56Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Eh? I thought that the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom were in a common travel area, and that’s one reason why the UK didn’t join the Schengen area. Now, if Ireland _had_ joined Schengen, the Irish immigration checks would make sense. It used to be army checkpoints, so hey, bit less guns these days. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/84 "2014-02-22T04:24:57Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I suggest Little Britain if no-one else has used the name. Computah says… _no._ ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/85 "2014-02-22T04:35:39Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I think you’re overlooking the fact that the UK is already a federal state, in effect. An _incomplete_ federal state, surely? In order for everything to be truly balanced, _England_ would also need an assembly. Scotland, NI, and Wales already have assemblies. The Westminster parliament would then handle only federal matters. In a federation like Canada, there is a constitution or some other document that sets out which powers belong to the federal assembly, and which belong to the provincial assemblies. And Canada is an an example that the Westminster system can function in a federation, on both levels. It works; it’s no big deal. Yet when I suggested it to my English cousin, she reacted almost with horror. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/86 "2014-02-22T12:20:05Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Eh? I thought that the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom were in a common travel area, and that’s one reason why the UK didn’t join the Schengen area. Now, if Ireland _had_ joined Schengen, the Irish immigration checks would make sense. Yeah someone in government decided they didn’t like foreigners so they started cracking down. It was bullshit, I think they only ever stopped public transport. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/87 "2014-02-22T15:30:57Z")
The K. I can’t believe I’m the first! ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/88 "2014-02-22T19:50:42Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I think Scotland would be in a fairly strong position to negotiate continuation of EU membership on the terms currently applicable to it as a constituent country of the UK. And in this regard in particular, doing so would seem to make eminent sense. Jose Barroso, European Commission Chief said on the Andrew Marr show (British political programme ) that it was highly unlikely for an independent Scotland to be allowed to join the E.U. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/89 "2014-02-22T19:59:17Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Jose Barroso, European Commission Chief said on the Andrew Marr show (British political programme ) that it was highly unlikely for an independent Scotland to be allowed to join the E.U. That seems out of line. If an independent Scotland meets the accession criteria, why wouldn’t it be allowed to join? (An independent Scotland would meet the EU accession criteria, wouldn’t it?) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/90 "2014-02-22T20:08:43Z")
Because the Spaniards are terrified of the spectre of separatism, given the Basques, Catalans, Galicians, etc. He is not speaking entirely as a neutral EU representative, but also as a Spaniard. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/91 "2014-02-22T22:39:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Because the Spaniards are terrified of the spectre of separatism, given the Basques, Catalans, Galicians, etc. He is not speaking entirely as a neutral EU representative, but also as a Spaniard. That said, from what I’ve read, Spain might have the power to veto Scotland’s attempt to join the EU. It seems a grey area as this issue has not come up before in an existing EU country (if you except West Germany’s Anschluss of East Germany). ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/92 "2014-02-22T22:42:44Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Because the Spaniards are terrified of the spectre of separatism, given the Basques, Catalans, Galicians, etc. He is not speaking entirely as a neutral EU representative, but also as a Spaniard. However, the Spanish Foreign Minister announced on February 3rd that Spain would not oppose Scotland’s accession to the EU, and that the cases of Scotland and Catalonia are “fundamentally different”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/93 "2014-02-22T23:38:40Z")
That’s true: they are fundamentally different, historically. I’m curious, though. Since the UK is (historically) the union of the crowns of Scotland and England, why is England necessarily the successor state to the UK’s EU membership? If it is a dissolution of a union, shouldn’t it automatically follow the model of Czechoslovakia, where both partners are recognized as successor states? In other words, either Scotland is automatically in the EU, or England+Wales+NI **also** has to rejoin (something I would suspect would be a harder sell in today’s UK-Scotland). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/94 "2014-02-23T02:58:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Whether border checks will arise is a pretty pertinent question. Plaids, surely. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/95 "2014-02-23T12:08:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > That’s true: they are fundamentally different, historically. > > …shouldn’t it automatically follow the model of Czechoslovakia, where both partners are recognized as successor states?.. The Czech Republic and Slovakia separated in 1993, both joining the EU in 2004, so that’s not really a precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/96 "2014-02-23T12:17:17Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > The Czech Republic and Slovakia separated in 1993, both joining the EU in 2004, so that’s not really a precedent. Sure it is. Not for the EU specifically, but for how to dissolve a nation made up of equal partners. According to Wikipedia, the sum of my knowledge on the subject, both honoured Czechoslovakia’s treaties, for instance. Everyone seems to be assuming this would be on the Eritrea-leaves-Ethiopia model, and I don’t understand why. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/97 "2014-02-23T13:05:25Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Sure it is. Not for the EU specifically, but for how to dissolve a nation made up of equal partners. According to Wikipedia, the sum of my knowledge on the subject, both honoured Czechoslovakia’s treaties, for instance. Everyone seems to be assuming this would be on the Eritrea-leaves-Ethiopia model, and I don’t understand why. I probably should have made it clearer, but I was referring to EU membership. From what I’ve read, Spain would oppose an independent Scotland’s membership of the EU, as it would likely encourage the Catalans and Basques to try to follow the same route. Your question of the position of the rest of the UK if Scotland was to become independent is an interesting one… As I said there’s not really been a precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/98 "2014-02-23T18:34:14Z")
All twenty seven member states have to approve Scotlands membership, apart from Spain, France doesn’t want to encourage Breton separatists, and Belgium the Walloons. Spains Foreign Minister diplomatically said that Spain would not oppose Scotlands membership, but also mentioned that all of Scotlands legislation would have to be scrutinised , plus the lengthy 35 steps of membership would have to gone through, plus the membership criteria be met first. Doesn’t sound very encouraging for Scotland . Currency might also be a problem as the Bank of England has said straight out that an independent Scotland could not keep Sterling. Scotland has no track record financially as an independent nation , which means that all of its government lending will be at very high interest rates, leading to frequent price rises in the shops amongst other things and very expensive mortgages . If I’m wrong feel free to correct me, bu I think a nation must have its own currency for two years before joining the Euro . On another topic, somebody asked why if Scotland has to reapply why doesn’t England/Wales/N.Ireland have to ? The U.K. is an economic contributor to the E.C. unlike some of the poorer nations, and there is a not insignificant unhappiness with the very large amount of cheap labour flooding the country from the poorer nations, which has reduced wages, working conditions etc. and hemmorhaged money from the economy . The E.C.is well aware that some within the U.K. might use Scotlands independence as a reason for the U.K. to leave Europe politically, and there have been pressures applied to encourage us to stay in . Amongst other things people from Eire would no longer be allowed to live and work in the U.K. at will, as they were even before the U.K.s membership, along with all of the E.European nationalities etc.etc. The U.K. will not have to renegotiate membership because if it was asked to it would very probably leave . ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/99 "2014-02-23T18:46:35Z")
But if Scotland leaves, it’s not the UK anymore. An independent Scotland should have exactly as much (or as little) right as a Scotland-free UK. Whence the presumption that England is the successor state to the UK? Is it because Parliament is in London? Is it because England is bigger? Is it because everyone thinks the UK is basically England and colonies anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284/100 "2014-02-23T22:26:00Z")
No I totally agree, as do many Brits who want the U.K. to leave the E.C., but thats how the E.C. look at it . But if Scotland leaves it still leaves England, Wales and N.Ireland as a union , its only foreigners who see the U.K. as England. As an Anglo Scot I once said to my Dad, oh you’re not British you’re Scot, s and he went raving mad . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-scotland-becomes-independent-what-will-the-uk-be-called/681284.md?page=6)