# If someone wants to commit suicide by mod, you should let them **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072 "2018-11-25T20:54:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/61 "2018-11-26T06:46:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What are you talking about? The person got warned. In the post I cited? No, I see two violations called out, no warnings issued. > [@](#): > > Seems like those two warnings contradict your “cite.” It’s entirely possible to get more than one warning in a thread. One warning doesn’t mean the other warnable offences weren’t allowed a pass.My cite stands. > [@](#): > > What you don’t get but is obvious is that right of center posters engage in vastly more self censorship than left of center posters. You’re a mind reader now? You have no idea how much anyone except yourself self-censors. And I’m not seeing a lot of self-censoring on _ideology_, especially immediately after 2016. I saw a lot of post-election crowing and quite aggresive promotion of rightist ideals, actually - pushback to BLM and #MeToo was quite strong here. The only real reason for rightists to self-censor, even given we have the Pit, would be if their uncensored thoughts would run afoul of the rules even there - so you’re saying your fellow travellers are just bottling up a lot of hate speech, misogyny, racism and trollery? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/62 "2018-11-26T06:52:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That is not addressing the question. Don’t go to the general when the question is specific. It’s a bit of a trap question isn’t it? And I think that avoiding the general and being forced to deal with a specific is an unnecessary constraint that doesn’t have to be accepted in any case. Now all that said I still think people should be treated equally. So if it’s acceptable to call politician A a chimp than I think it should be equally acceptable to call politician B a chimp. Perhaps my thinking is overly simplistic and lacks appropriate nuance. I disagree. I think if we can critique Christianity we should be able to critique other religions. If we critique the old we should be able to critique the young. Etc. Personally speaking, and I’m admittedly not perfect with this, I do think that political discourse has become very heated and ugly. And even though I wouldn’t generally use certain language I think if ugly language is acceptable we shouldn’t have acceptable targets and unacceptable targets due to political bias. I also have no problem with an explicit double standard on a forum if it’s actually explicitly stated. So why not just make it a sticky? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/63 "2018-11-26T07:01:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In the post I cited? No, I see two violations called out, no warnings issued. > It’s entirely possible to get more than one warning in a thread. One warning doesn’t mean the other warnable offences weren’t allowed a pass.My cite stands. > > You’re a mind reader now? You have no idea how much anyone except yourself self-censors. > > And I’m not seeing a lot of self-censoring on _ideology_, especially immediately after 2016. I saw a lot of post-election crowing and quite aggresive promotion of rightist ideals, actually - pushback to BLM and #MeToo was quite strong here. > > The only real reason for rightists to self-censor, even given we have the Pit, would be if their uncensored thoughts would run afoul of the rules even there - so you’re saying your fellow travellers are just bottling up a lot of hate speech, misogyny, racism and trollery? Other right leaning posters have admitted to self-censoring due to double standards. You’ve participated in enough of these threads to be aware of that. Regarding so-called hate speech? It’s not the speech that makes it hateful. It’s the targeting of a member of a protected and special class that makes it hateful. And you are wise enough to throw in one of the subjective catch-all transgressions in your list so that if the target is a left wing and straight, white Christian male we can label the offender a “troll” or “jerk.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/64 "2018-11-26T07:16:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Other right leaning posters have admitted to self-censoring due to double standards. You’ve participated in enough of these threads to be aware of that. The issue isn’t self-censoring (we all do it, myself included - this entire board is _way_ to the right of my politics so I’ve learned not to bring it up as often because it leads to pointless hijacks and attacks), it’s you claiming to know _how much_ the rest of your ilk self censor. > [@](#): > > Regarding so-called hate speech? So you’re in denial that hate speech exists? > [@](#): > > And you are wise enough to throw in one of the subjective catch-all transgressions in your list so that if the target is a left wing and straight, white Christian male we can label the offender a “troll” or “jerk.” This isn’t really a substantive response to my actual question… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/65 "2018-11-26T07:51:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The issue isn’t self-censoring (we all do it, myself included - this entire board is _way_ to the right of my politics so I’ve learned not to bring it up as often because it leads to pointless hijacks and attacks), it’s you claiming to know _how much_ the rest of your ilk self censor. > > So you’re in denial that hate speech exists? > This isn’t really a substantive response to my actual question… Hate speech as a label for speech that the government should sanction? No. I might be able to be convinced to change my mind on that and it’s an issue I do wrestle with. I’ve seen things on the internet that make me question my strong support for freedom of expression. Hate speech as a description of heinous ideas or desires? Yes, I think it’s obvious that that exists. Your question of would the pit be a hive of hate speech? It already is. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/66 "2018-11-26T08:30:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hate speech as a label for speech that the government should sanction? No, this site has nothing to do with the government (except the “no promoting illegal acts” rule which is not under discussion), talking about the rules moderation here has nothing to do with government censorship. If _I talk about hate speech here, I’m talking about how this site_ considers the term. I’m not arguing for or against (hypothetical) government boogiemen. > [@](#): > > Hate speech as a description of heinous ideas or desires? Yes, I think it’s obvious that that exists. Then why the “so-called”? > [@](#): > > Your question of would the pit be a hive of hate speech? It already is. Naah. Unless you care to cite this supposed “hate speech”? It’s one thing **Miller** is quite draconian on. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/67 "2018-11-26T10:43:43Z")
I’d just like to say that I find it interesting that in three threads on this topic, the one person we haven’t seen protesting the initial act of modding is _the person who got modded in the first place_. Seems like an awful silly hill to die on, white-knighting the cause of someone who apparently thinks it was a fair cop to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/68 "2018-11-26T11:59:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In other words, you’ve got nothing. Have fun in the echo chamber. HAHAHAHAnope. Tell you what: rather than follow you into the weeds (the thorny itchy gross weeds) here, I’ll invite you to start a thread in GD, containing those sentences, and I’ll break down at least some of the ways in which your post was so absurdly wrong. But explaining the scope and depth of your wrongness is simply too much for an ATMB thread about suicide by mod. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/69 "2018-11-26T13:25:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Is it too much to ask to get a definitive answer to why this was modded and then ask that whatever the answer that it be modded equally to posts about Trump and his supporters? **Octopus** has asked that above. Many conservatives have asks this. Why can the mods not give a specific answer about this double standard? > [@octopus](#): > > It’s a bit of a trap question isn’t it? And I think that avoiding the general and being forced to deal with a specific is an unnecessary constraint that doesn’t have to be accepted in any case. > > Now all that said I still think people should be treated equally. So if it’s acceptable to call politician A a chimp than I think it should be equally acceptable to call politician B a chimp. Perhaps my thinking is overly simplistic and lacks appropriate nuance. I disagree. I think if we can critique Christianity we should be able to critique other religions. If we critique the old we should be able to critique the young. Etc. > > Personally speaking, and I’m admittedly not perfect with this, I do think that political discourse has become very heated and ugly. And even though I wouldn’t generally use certain language I think if ugly language is acceptable we shouldn’t have acceptable targets and unacceptable targets due to political bias. > > I also have no problem with an explicit double standard on a forum if it’s actually explicitly stated. So why not just make it a sticky? It’s not a trap at all. It’s an explicit illustration of the issue at hand. You may refuse to address the specific in favor of the general but that is simply ignoring the salient point. As I said above, it is NOT a double standard. Your implication that is demonstrates that you aren’t following what that standard actually is. If someone can address their female spouse by saying, “hey, baby”, but they cannot address other women the same way, is that a double standard because they are both women? No, there is a difference. Not recognizing this is facile nonsense. So yes, your thinking is overly simplistic. I think of it like saying, _if 1+1 = 2, then 1+2 should equal 2 because they both use the “+” symbol!_ That’s how wrong it is. So let me be clear. **SPEAKING AS A MODERATOR:** This is NOT a double standard. Your view in paragraph 2 in the quoted section above that context should be ignored and if posters can call Bush 43 a chimp then posters should be able to call Obama a chimp will never come to pass on this message board. Not ever. Couching this in terms of treating people equally is worthless nonsense and completely devoid of any merit whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/70 "2018-11-26T13:43:05Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s not a trap at all. It’s an explicit illustration of the issue at hand. You may refuse to address the specific in favor of the general but that is simply ignoring the salient point. > > As I said above, it is NOT a double standard. Your implication that is demonstrates that you aren’t following what that standard actually is. If someone can address their female spouse by saying, “hey, baby”, but they cannot address other women the same way, is that a double standard because they are both women? No, there is a difference. Not recognizing this is facile nonsense. > > So yes, your thinking is overly simplistic. I think of it like saying, _if 1+1 = 2, then 1+2 should equal 2 because they both use the “+” symbol!_ That’s how wrong it is. > > So let me be clear. **SPEAKING AS A MODERATOR:** This is NOT a double standard. Your view in paragraph 2 in the quoted section above that context should be ignored and if posters can call Bush 43 a chimp then posters should be able to call Obama a chimp will never come to pass on this message board. Not ever. Couching this in terms of treating people equally is worthless nonsense and completely devoid of any merit whatsoever. Not being exactly equivalent is the escape clause. And there really is no effective counter to that except to point it out and reference a more generally used definition of what a double standard is rather than what it is hoped to be. > **[Double standard](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard)** > > A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for situations that are, in principle, the same. It is often used to describe treatment whereby one group is given more latitude than another. A double standard arises when two or more people, groups, organizations, circumstances, or events are treated differently even though they should be treated the same way. A double standard "implies that two things which are the same are measured by different standards". > Applying differe... > [@](#): > > A double standard may take the form of an instance in which certain concepts (often, for example, a word, phrase, social norm, or rule) are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group of people, but are considered unacceptable—taboo—when applied by another group. A double standard can therefore be described as a biased or morally unfair application of the principle that all are equal in their freedoms. Such double standards are seen as unjustified because they violate a basic maxim of modern legal jurisprudence: that all parties should stand equal before the law. Double standards also violate the principle of justice known as impartiality, which is based on the assumption that the same standards should be applied to all people, without regard to subjective bias or favoritism based on social class, rank, ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or other distinctions. A double standard violates this principle by holding different people accountable according to different standards. But again your message board - your rules and definitions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/71 "2018-11-26T13:48:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not being exactly equivalent is the escape clause. And there really is no effective counter to that except to point it out and reference a more generally used definition of what a double standard is rather than what it is hoped to be. > > [Double standard - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard) > > But again your message board - your rules and definitions. You can see it as a double standard, but that doesn’t make it so. The standard is the same – don’t use monkey references against anyone when there is a historical precedent of using monkey insults against individuals of their race in order to dehumanize. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/72 "2018-11-26T14:15:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > HAHAHAHAnope. > > Tell you what: rather than follow you into the weeds (the thorny itchy gross weeds) here, I’ll invite you to start a thread in GD, containing those sentences, and I’ll break down at least some of the ways in which your post was so absurdly wrong. But explaining the scope and depth of your wrongness is simply too much for an ATMB thread about suicide by mod. I’ll gladly join in, **UltraVires** , if you’re seriously interested in a discussion about Gender Dysphoria and its history in the DSM (it’s one of my areas of specialty). There’s some fascinating stuff to unpack; we might learn stuff! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/73 "2018-11-26T14:33:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But again your message board - your rules and definitions. And our choice to leave. The moderation has become so one sided lately that it is frankly not enjoyable to post here anymore. Maybe I could stay in Cafe Society or whatnot, but if this board wants to drive conservatives away, it does a great job, this thread Exhibit A. If one of ours is dinged, then it is simply “telling the truth.” Yeah, Trump is really and truly fucking his own daughter (so say we) so we are allowed to say it. But tell a JOKE, a fucking JOKE about Michelle Obama and then we get nine different reasons why we cannot do that. Enjoy your echo chamber, guys. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/74 "2018-11-26T14:37:47Z")
Oooh, yeah, keep pushing that false equivalence, baby! You know we love it… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/75 "2018-11-26T14:43:40Z")
Who here has said that Trump is actually fucking his daughter? All I’ve seen is people saying that he wants to, _which Trump himself told us_. Is it unfairly biased against conservatives to truthfully report what the President says? Our rules are against jerkishness. If you complain that rules against jerkishness disproportionately impact conservatives, then what you’re saying is that conservatives are inherently jerkish. We’re not making that argument, you are. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/76 "2018-11-26T15:00:15Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And our choice to leave. Farewell! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/77 "2018-11-26T15:18:20Z")
Two things: 1. That’s enough. Please do not celebrate anyone’s departure or lack thereof. This ain’t the forum for that. 2. Bone said that Double Standards aren’t there. I’m declaring that off-the-table for purposes of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/78 "2018-11-26T15:20:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And our choice to leave. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is hatred really _that_ important to you? Apparently so. ETA: unintentional simulpost. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/79 "2018-11-26T15:22:44Z")
I’m happy to bring this back to the original topic - should it be part of the mods’ ambit to save “suicidal” posters from themselves, or should they just give them what they want? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072/80 "2018-11-26T15:30:00Z")
I think any direct requests and/or dares to ban should be granted immediately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-someone-wants-to-commit-suicide-by-mod-you-should-let-them/825072.md?page=5)