# If Spacefligh Was Achieved in Victorian Times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537 "2013-12-05T01:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/1 "2013-12-05T01:38:41Z")
Would we now be colonizing the Moon, Mars, etc.? Suppose we had been able to launch spaceships without miniaturized electronics…would we have abandoned it by now? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/2 "2013-12-05T01:40:45Z")
The number of deaths from radiation, accidents, vacuum, etc would have been horrific. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/3 "2013-12-05T02:05:01Z")
Hmm, a boiler explosion…_IN SPACE!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/4 "2013-12-05T02:11:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Would we now be colonizing the Moon, Mars, etc.? We haven’t colonized the Moon yet because there’s no profitable or practical reason to. How does that change in a Steampunk timeline? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/5 "2013-12-05T02:35:25Z")
We might end up like the Centauri from _Babylon 5_ - technologically advanced but still empire-and-aristocracy-minded. Of course, it’s not _just_ miniaturized electronics that makes space travel possible. Let’s say effective aluminum production had started circa 1780 instead of 1880. All by itself, it can dramatically affect how wars are fought - maybe humans would have had airplanes much earlier and bombed itself into rubble before a Goddard could come along and suggest rocketry. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/6 "2013-12-05T03:10:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We haven’t colonized the Moon yet because there’s no profitable or practical reason to. How does that change in a Steampunk timeline? Right. And it goes beyond practicality. Martian real estate agents could talk rapturously about the stark beauty, but after a couple months the great majority of people are going to want some real beauty, not to mention trees. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/7 "2013-12-05T03:19:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We haven’t colonized the Moon yet because there’s no profitable or practical reason to. How does that change in a Steampunk timeline? With Cavorite, anything is possible! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/8 "2013-12-05T05:00:17Z")
The Edwardians would have griped about not getting their flying hansom cabs. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/9 "2013-12-05T16:26:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Would we now be colonizing the Moon, Mars, etc.? > Suppose we had been able to launch spaceships without miniaturized electronics…would we have abandoned it by now? [You can read all about it here.](http://www.amazon.com/Larklight-Rousing-Dauntless-Farthest-Reaches/dp/1599901455/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386260738&sr=1-1&keywords=Larklight) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/10 "2013-12-05T16:45:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We haven’t colonized the Moon yet because there’s no profitable or practical reason to. How does that change in a Steampunk timeline? Presumably because by several centuries further development spaceflight would cost a lot less. The reason we haven’t begun exploiting the rest of the solar system for resources is because it still costs so much to get out of the gravity well, making it more expensive now than it’s worth. If you could solve that issue, however, then exploitation of the solar system opens up vast, almost unimaginable access to resources and wealth. The moon has large deposits of helium 3, for instance, so assuming you had fusion to go along with your space travel centuries before it happened it would be feasible no only to mine the resource but to establish a colony for the purposes of said mining. That’s how the equation might change in a ‘Steampunk timeline’. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/11 "2013-12-05T16:56:16Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > Hmm, a boiler explosion…_IN SPACE!!!_ Thank God for ASME Section III. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/12 "2013-12-05T17:40:58Z")
Space orbit, in my space suit. Wanna see me? Buy a telescope. Gonna be in space. Spaaaaaace! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/13 "2013-12-05T17:51:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Presumably because by several centuries further development spaceflight would cost a lot less. The reason we haven’t begun exploiting the rest of the solar system for resources is because it still costs so much to get out of the gravity well, making it more expensive now than it’s worth. If you could solve that issue, however, then exploitation of the solar system opens up vast, almost unimaginable access to resources and wealth. The moon has large deposits of helium 3, for instance, so assuming you had fusion to go along with your space travel centuries before it happened it would be feasible no only to mine the resource but to establish a colony for the purposes of said mining. That’s how the equation might change in a ‘Steampunk timeline’. Look, there’s untapped mineral wealth throughout the Solar System. So what? There’s untapped mineral wealth in Antarctica. It remains untapped because nobody has figured out how to conduct mining operations profitably in a place where there is no transportation infrastructure, and you have to dig through a mile of ice to scratch the dirt, and pay the miners extra just for working in such a place. But those problems and costs are trivial compared to those of mining in outer space, even if we had a space elevator or something to cut the cost of getting out of Earth’s gravity well. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/14 "2013-12-05T17:58:49Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] There’s untapped mineral wealth in Antarctica. It remains untapped because nobody has figured out how to conduct mining operations profitably in a place where there is no transportation infrastructure, and you have to dig through a mile of ice to scratch the dirt, and pay the miners extra just for working in such a place. [/QUOTE] Um, no…it’s untapped because there are treaties that forbid exploitation of Antarctica by signatory nations. If you opened it up to allow exploitation then I can guarantee someone would exploit it at some point. > [@](#): > > But those problems and costs are trivial compared to those of mining in outer space, even if we had a space elevator or something to cut the cost of getting out of Earth’s gravity well. And the same could be said about Europe before the exploitation of the new world. The costs of trying to start colonies and exploit resources in the new world were massive compared to simply using what they already had access in Europe. I’m not saying that the comparison is one for one, though if you look at what it cost from a GDP perspective it’s not all that far off. But the level of resources available out in the solar system is simply massive, and at some point we WILL exploit them. If we had a few hundred years of space flight development I’m pretty confident that we’d be doing it already. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/15 "2013-12-05T18:45:24Z")
Meh, the romance of space colonization would wear thin if there were no heathen savages to civilize. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/16 "2013-12-05T18:53:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Um, no…it’s untapped because there are treaties that forbid exploitation of Antarctica by signatory nations. If you opened it up to allow exploitation then I can guarantee someone would exploit it at some point. Can you? Why do you think the nations were so ready to sign? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/17 "2013-12-05T19:01:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you? Why do you think the nations were so ready to sign? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/18 "2013-12-05T19:22:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Can you? Why do you think the nations were so ready to sign? Because otherwise it would have been a huge fight with nations vying to control the untapped resources there. Why do YOU think they signed? Because they all felt it was worthless? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spacefligh-was-achieved-in-victorian-times/675537/19 "2013-12-05T21:27:41Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Because otherwise it would have been a huge fight with nations vying to control the untapped resources there. Why do YOU think they signed? Because they all felt it was worthless? :dubious: Pretty much, i.e., too difficult to extract, therefore not worth fighting over.