# If Spanish is so Unamerican, why tolerate names like San Francisco and Los Angeles? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699 "2002-08-27T00:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/1 "2002-08-27T00:07:32Z")
According to a few threads, notabley this one, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=132237](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=132237) speaking Spanish is bound to lead to catastrophic seperatism, lesbian vampire commies, and the end of the world as we know it. Surely this evil tongue must be stopped! I hear a lot of this in California, which frankly makes me laugh my ass off. Ever look at where you live? Chances are it is Los Angeles, or San Jose, or San Francisco, or Sacramento, or San Diego. You know those are all Spanish names, right? Yes, it is true. The evil Spanish language managed to actually _manipulate time_ to make it appear like _people have been speaking Spanish in California continuosly, for hundreds of years before English ever entered the scene_!!! I know. It is shocking. Imagine the idea that Spanish is just as legitamite a language to speak in California as English is! Next thing you know, they will be claiming that _most of California was Mexico before it was the United States_!!! Imagine the nerve of people for saying that it is alright to speak the language that your people have been speaking for generations. I can’t even stomach the thought. We must stop this evil language of Spaniards, so we can prevent the kind of lingual strife that is destroying so many countries- like Switzerland. If you are truely American, you would fight for cities names The Angels, Saint Frank, and Saint Joe. Thank you. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/2 "2002-08-27T00:17:48Z")
Ummm . . . nice strawman and all, but I think you’ll find the real issue is whether or not we wish to spend tax dollars on bilingual government documents, signs, and translators. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/3 "2002-08-27T00:33:34Z")
I’ve been trying to get the names changed for years…don’t you think St. Francis is a more appropriate name for San Fran? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/4 "2002-08-27T00:42:04Z")
To the OP: You might want to recall that the Golden State was once part of Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/5 "2002-08-27T00:46:24Z")
**Andros** , I think statements like: > [@](#): > > “It hurts America as a whole when new immigrants do not assimilate into their host culture.” > > “Multi-lingual ballots (as well as bi-lingual education, etc.) encourage immigrants not to take the trouble to learn English.” > > “It is necessary to learn basic English to immigrate. That requirement, obviously shows that English is required here. To learn just enough to pass the test and then refuse to learn more is disrespectful of the US. And I, personally, don’t want you here if you are going to disprespect the place! It’s bad enough we get disrespected by Europeans at large (seemingly).” > > "I would like to avoid Canada’s example, having a French-speaking minority imposing its language on the Anglophones while at the same time keeping French the dominant language in Quebec. I really don’t want to see a Mexican seperatist movement in the Southwest, which could easily happen in another century. " > > “Frankly (and I’m sure you’re going to find this abominable), if you can’t even understand the ballot, how on earth are you going to understand the politics that’s being debated? If you can’t read the ballot well enough to understand where to put your cross you shouldn’t pollute the democratic process with your vote… In short, why is it a good thing to encourage people who can’t understand English well enough to vote without the aid of a translator to enter the polling stations in the first place?” > > “The fact that there’s not been a problem with national unity is because there hasn’t been a wide-scaled effort to not require immigrants to learn our language. Once we start encouraging people to not bother with our language (which is what multilingual ballots will do), we will begin to see these problems.” show that the question is more cultural than economic. And if Spanish is such a great threat to our society (manipulating time to make it look like it has been the language of some areas for hundreds of years and all) than surely we cannot tolerate it in the very names of the places where we live. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/6 "2002-08-27T01:20:07Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve been trying to get the names changed for years…don’t you think St. Francis is a more appropriate name for San Fran? “We have our own patron saint: Saint Francis the Sissy. For his miracle he turned breakfast into brunch.” - Tom Ammiano ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/7 "2002-08-27T01:33:36Z")
Actually, **even sven** , the names are kept Spanish to rub our southern neighbor’s nose in the fact. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/8 "2002-08-27T01:45:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*Ummm . . . nice strawman and all, but I think you’ll find the real issue is whether or not we wish to spend tax dollars on bilingual government documents, signs, and translators. \*\* Why not? The families of a lot of my Spanish-speaking friends have been here (Texas) for a lot longer than my family has, and my mother’s side moved here in the 1840s. Of course, it could destroy the country. After all, look at what happened to Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/9 "2002-08-27T01:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cornflakes \* > \*\*Why not? The families of a lot of my Spanish-speaking friends have been here (Texas) for a lot longer than my family has, and my mother’s side moved here in the 1840s. > \*\* They’ve been in the US for more than 150 years & not bothered to learn English yet? I’m certain that if I moved to a country where my native tongue wasn’t the official language, I would (and would be expected to) learn the country’s language. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/10 "2002-08-27T01:59:09Z")
**Monty** : > [@](#): > > To the OP: You might want to recall that the Golden State was once part of Mexico. She said that. **even sven** : > [@](#): > > Next thing you know, they will be claiming that most of California was Mexico before it was the United States!!! I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm, though. I’m not going to get worked up about it, but I don’t know why people care so much about native Spanish speakers speaking Spanish, raising their kids to speak Spanish, and voting in Spanish. Nothing particularly holy about English. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/11 "2002-08-27T02:12:10Z")
Slainte: And since when is English the official language of the United States of America? Answer: Never! The United States does not have an official language; however, some of the individual states do have official languages. BTW, if you move to Hawaii do you intend to learn Hawaiian? After all, that’s an official language of that great State. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/12 "2002-08-27T02:14:37Z")
**Slainte** , I can’t speak for **corny** , but I would assume that his friends are bilingual, but speak mostly Spanish in the home. It seems almost impossible for a group to hold out for 150 years with picking enough words to communicate unless they lived on a remote ranch or something. As for the OP: [devil’s advocate] Its’ because those cities were founded by hard working, God fearing, literate, noble Spainards, not greasy, lazy Mexicans.\* [da] Besides, we kept Native American names such as Missouri and Oswego, Dutch names like Ploughkespie and Pennsylvania, and French names such as Lousiana and New Orleans. Why start renaming things? [sub]\*Not my opinion of Mexicans **at all**. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/13 "2002-08-27T02:17:16Z")
One thing I have noticed living in California is that the people who complain about the infiltration of Spanish never bothered to learn it. I think they are just upset that they can’t understand it. If they took the time to learn the language, would they really mind it if it became prevalent? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/14 "2002-08-27T02:20:41Z")
I checked the so-called offending thread. Really don’t see where the Spanish language is called **unAmerican**. Surely the hamsters were meant for more meaningful subjects. Thanks for playing, anyway. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/15 "2002-08-27T02:22:50Z")
Touche, **Monty**. “Official” was a poor choice of words. BTW, I lived in Hawai’i for 4 years & learned a lot of the language. ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/16 "2002-08-27T02:34:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wolfian \* > \*\ ***Slainte** , I can’t speak for **corny** , but I would assume that his friends are bilingual, but speak mostly Spanish in the home. It seems almost impossible for a group to hold out for 150 years with picking enough words to communicate unless they lived on a remote ranch or something. > \*\* **andros** said: > [@](#): > > I think you’ll find the real issue is whether or not we wish to spend tax dollars on bilingual government documents, signs, and translators. To which **cornflakes** replied: > [@](#): > > Why not? The families of a lot of my Spanish-speaking friends have been here (Texas) for a lot longer than my family has, and my mother’s side moved here in the 1840s. So, if you _can_ speak English (Disclaimer: Unofficial US Language since 1776 or so) you don’t need the things **andros** mentioned. And if you have been in the US that long and _cannot_ speak English I don’t see why you should be accommodated. YMMV though ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/17 "2002-08-27T04:06:31Z")
Slainte: Mahalo. At least regarding the Hawaiian thing. Regarding your next posting: Accommodation isn’t the issue, alienation of citizens is. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/18 "2002-08-27T04:27:35Z")
Well, at least in some cases it was not a case of these Spanish-speaking people moving into the US, but the US moving into their territory. Not that I give an ant’s doo. Por favor continúen. [sup]hihi[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/19 "2002-08-27T04:35:25Z")
Funny, the exact opposite thing is occuring in Louisiana. There is a strong movement to preserve the Cajun French language. Elementary school children here in Lafayette are all in “French Immersion” classes. The city government is changing road signs so they say, for example, “Route d’Evangeline Nord-Ouest” instead of “NW Evangeline Thruway.” The English translation is in very small letters under the French and can be hard to see when driving. That’s no big deal in my previous example because “Evangeline” is a name and is spelled the same in both languages. I imagine, though, it could get a little hairy if a tourist was looking for Willow Street or something. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699/20 "2002-08-27T04:52:18Z")
Hmm, I didn’t think of it that way **Slainte**. I guess we have to wait for **cornflake** to clarify this for us, but nice catch. Re the they should be speaking it issue: I can see both sides of the issue, but I’m inclined to side with you. I think a person know enough of a language to get along in a society. When I went to France for an all too brief vacation, I made sure that I knew enough French to say hello, say thank you, and ask if they spoke English or Spanish (a language I was a lot better at than French). This worked out fine as I spent a lot of time in touristy areas full of bilingual guides, but I was sure to always ask “Cepa l’inleges” [sic] (a line roughly borrowed from "South Pacific)? That was just being respectful of being in another kid’s sandbox and playing by his rules. If I had stayed in France to live I would have definately taken a course to learn the language or at least had a bilingual friend translate for me in rough situations. I’ve seen the translator thing happen many times in a department store I worked in. Usually the children will translate for a parent. That’s fine as long as the kids are there, but what about after they leave? I’ve gotten a bit off track. I think everyone in the country should know enough to get around. For a tourist it might be a few phrases. For a full fledged citizen, they should know enough to understand basic life. Shopping, hosipitals, courts, etc. This shouldn’t be mandated by law, but its’ definately worth knowing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-spanish-is-so-unamerican-why-tolerate-names-like-san-francisco-and-los-angeles/125699.md?page=2)