# If Stephen Hawking was born in America, **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263 "2009-08-13T06:30:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/21 "2009-08-13T16:15:27Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > In Hawking’s case under HIPAA (which of course didn’t exist when he was diagnosed), his pre-existing condition might have been excluded. It would depend on when he was diagnosed and treated.From [here.](http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq_consumer_hipaa.html) It also would have depended on a) state law, and b) his employer’s specific health plan. Even before HIPAA, for example, Illinois had a state law that group plans had to cover preexsting conditions in most (if not all) circumstances (I found this out once the hard way). And the Federal Government’s employee insurance plans cover preexisting conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/22 "2009-08-13T16:22:20Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Hawking may not have suffered, but others [have](http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/08/debbie-hirst-not-stephen-hawking.html):It is far easier to nitpick at the opposition rather than meet their arguments head-on. Did you know that Avastin is not covered by US Health Insurance Companies? it is very expensive and does not cure cancer, but prolongs life by a few months. But you knew that, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/23 "2009-08-13T16:42:35Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Did you know that Avastin is not covered by US Health Insurance Companies? it is very expensive and does not cure cancer, but prolongs life by a few months. But you knew that, I’m sure. If you actually read the story, you’ll see that she tried to raise money in order to pay for it herself _but she wasn’t allowed too_ without paying for _all_ her care. Health insuarance companies here in the US might not pay for it, but they can’t stop YOU from paying for it. Which was the whole point of the story. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/24 "2009-08-13T16:51:13Z")
[http://www.mindspring.com/~cjalverson/Avastin\_and\_Breast\_Cancer.htm](http://www.mindspring.com/~cjalverson/Avastin_and_Breast_Cancer.htm) Actually, what Avastin appears to do is extend progression-free survival in breast cancer, rather than actual overall survival time. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/25 "2009-08-13T16:58:15Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If you actually read the story, you’ll see that she tried to raise money in order to pay for it herself _but she wasn’t allowed too_ without paying for _all_ her care. Health insuarance companies here in the US might not pay for it, but they can’t stop YOU from paying for it. > > Which was the whole point of the story. And which the cite also notes is a policy that has since been reversed in the UK. They got it wrong for whatever reason but fixed it. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/26 "2009-08-13T17:02:16Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Hawking may not have suffered, but others [have](http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/08/debbie-hirst-not-stephen-hawking.html): That blog entry appears to be a partial quote from [this New York times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/world/europe/21britain.html). There is an interesting twist: > [@](#): > > But in a final irony, Mrs. Hirst was told early this month that her cancer had spread and that her condition had deteriorated so much that she could have the Avastin after all — paid for by the health service. In other words, a system that forbade her to buy the medicine earlier was now saying that she was so sick she could have it at public expense. Also the blog says (as noted above) that the policy was reversed. I think this NY Times article predates that change. By the way, here’s the [article about approval of Avastin in the US](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/business/apee-drug.html?_r=1). It was only approved last year (for breast cancer treatment), and seems to be a controversial decision even then. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/27 "2009-08-13T17:02:36Z")
To top it off, the whole comparison is rather silly anyway. Britain has socialized health care. We are considering socialized health insurance. Comparisons to Canada are more appropriate. But if we point out examples of how socialized systems screw individuals - I had the pleasure of working with the legal group for United Health Care quite a few years ago. Private insurance has its horror stories as well. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/28 "2009-08-13T17:08:18Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If you actually read the story, you’ll see that she tried to raise money in order to pay for it herself _but she wasn’t allowed too_ without paying for _all_ her care. Health insuarance companies here in the US might not pay for it, but they can’t stop YOU from paying for it. > > Which was the whole point of the story. So, I guess the point of the story is that since government employees are ultimately answerable to the people, that this policy was reversed? Whereas, insurance company execs are answerable to stockholders? You’re right – this is an excellent argument for some reform of the US health care system. We now see clear evidence that the British version has self-correcting features like this. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/29 "2009-08-13T17:38:02Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > I brought this up in a different thread, but a good deal of Hawkins care has come from private foundations. He says as much on his own website. His 24hr nursing care, his wheel chair, his synthesizer, etc, all were donated from private foundations. Hmm…wonder what Professor Hawking has to say about it? > [@](#): > > “I wouldn’t be alive today if it weren’t for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high quality treatment without which I would not have survived.” > > —Stephen Hawking, August 11, 2009 > > SOURCE: [http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/erica/2009/08/stephen-hawking-likes-his-deat.php?ref=recdc](http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/erica/2009/08/stephen-hawking-likes-his-deat.php?ref=recdc) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/30 "2009-08-13T17:47:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hmm…wonder what Professor Hawking has to say about it? of course he went on to say, “In a parallel universe, of course, I am killed byt the UK health system, but that is only because there are an infinite number of alternative universes. Here let me show you the math.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/31 "2009-08-13T19:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > As an undergraduate student, he’d be covered under his parents’ insurance. As a graduate student and researcher, his health insurance would be provided by the university. While a few universities can afford to provide health coverage for grad students in a few departments (I’m lucky enough to be in this category), this is far from the norm. Grad students are in a sort of limbo between “student” and “employee”, and most schools will exploit this ambiguous status to deny us the benefits of both categories. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/32 "2009-08-13T19:58:42Z")
BTW, the IBD posted an editorial on their editorial. First line, if I may paraphrase, [Yes, we lied, but you guys are the one distorting the debate."](http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=503233) and so it goes, a nonsensical editorial to trump the original. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/33 "2009-08-13T22:09:21Z")
If Hawking were born in America, he’d probably end up with voice synthesizer that sounded British. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/34 "2009-08-14T10:50:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If Hawking were born in America, he’d probably end up with voice synthesizer that sounded British. I wonder if it was that that caused the embarrassement? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/35 "2009-08-14T14:13:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hmm…wonder what Professor Hawking has to say about it? Yep. None of that contradicts what I stated, though. I’m sure the NHS provided very good care for him up to the level they were allowed. But after his tracheotomy back in the 80’s, he would have had a very different life if he hadn’t had an ‘elite’ status that drew the attention of private foundations. Going back to the OP, famous and rich people get exceptional care in the US just as they do in the UK, so it’s kinda irrelevant which country they are in. As a result, the level of the care give to exception individuals is pretty much irrelevant to the general debate. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263/36 "2009-08-14T14:26:00Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Yep. None of that contradicts what I stated, though. I’m sure the NHS provided very good care for him up to the level they were allowed. But after his tracheotomy back in the 80’s, he would have had a very different life if he hadn’t had an ‘elite’ status that drew the attention of private foundations. > > Going back to the OP, famous and rich people get exceptional care in the US just as they do in the UK, so it’s kinda irrelevant which country they are in. As a result, the level of the care give to exception individuals is pretty much irrelevant to the general debate. Then you should be yelling at the chuckleheaded nitwits who CHOSE Hawking as their example and thereby made themselves and anyone who defends them look like idiots. I mean, seriously. There’s a level of chicanery, ignorance, and dishonesty that runs through these conversations like kudzu. People get one chance to demonstrate they’re doing their best, and after that nothing. IBD is a disgrace. Defense of it is a disgrace. As for Hawking getting care because he’s exceptional: Since that’s exactly what we have here PLUS people they have people who aren’t exceptional getting care, it would appear the British system is the best of both worlds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-stephen-hawking-was-born-in-america/506263.md?page=1)