If Switzerland were attacked, would anyone help?

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Arnold Winkelried

That being said, Switzerland, **despite ** being neutral, has a (comparatively) large budget for an army and would attempt to defend itself against an attacker, as silenus said.

I think you misspelled “because.”

[Dunderman]

@Miller

I think he missed the point. It’s an ethical question, not a wargaming scenario. If a country has historically never attempted to aid other nations in times of war, should other nations attempt to aid it when it comes under attack?

In that case, yes, absolutely. The guys in charge decided not to interfere in wars, and therefore we should watch Swiss civilians get slaughtered? Not on my watch.

[Sal_Ammoniac]

@silenus

Besides, the Swiss wouldn’t need any help to rout the forces of any neighboring country. They are quite capable of defending themselves.

From what I’ve heard – anecdotally, from a Swiss guy describing his summer training exercises – the Swiss military actually has a comic-opera quality to it these days. Maybe that’s because they haven’t had to use it basically forever, and know that, with the neighborhood they live in, they’re unlikely to have to use it in the foreseeable future. Those conditions don’t lend themselves to the develoment of a serious fighting force.

[msmith537]

@Sal Ammoniac

From what I’ve heard – anecdotally, from a Swiss guy describing his summer training exercises – the Swiss military actually has a comic-opera quality to it these days. Maybe that’s because they haven’t had to use it basically forever, and know that, with the neighborhood they live in, they’re unlikely to have to use it in the foreseeable future. Those conditions don’t lend themselves to the develoment of a serious fighting force.

Have you seen their Swiss Army Knives? What do you think a Swiss Army Tank or Swiss Army Howitzer is like? Your fighting this thing and all of a sudden all manner of freakin rockets and lasers and giant magnifying glasses come flipping out of the turret.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

It is worth noting that, during the Cold War, Switzerland used NATO-standard ammo for it’s small arms, exclusively, & I believe for it’s heavy weapons as well.

“Neutral”, eh? :dubious:
Hmmmm…veeeerrrry interesting.

I suspect that there are secret little pieces of paper, signed by Heads of State, that would make interesting reading.

[don_t_ask]

Why would they need help?

Surely this is covered by the WWII anecdote. A high ranking Nazi is visiting Switzerland and asks a Swiss official what they would do if Germany invaded them. The Swiss official points out that the terrain is easy to defend and Switzerland can instantly summon an army of 1,000,000 armed men. The German asks, “What if we invade with an army of 2,000,000?” And the Swiss replies, “Well everyone will shoot twice.”

[MMI]

@Malienation

Your analysis isn’t wrong, but it is sort of missing the point. Okay, today they don’t have to worry. But think long term, maybe hundreds of years. In those terms, countries and borders are flexible. France, Italy, et al, might not be the same countries in 500 - 1000 years. Maybe they would attack, or allow attackers through their countries. More importantly, though: should anyone help if one of Switzerland’s neighbors invaded? Perhaps a better way to phrase the question: is anyone morally obliged to help considering how “neutral” Switzerland has been in the past?

Which wars over the past 500 years do you feel the Swiss should have participated in that they did not participate in? Which wars in the past 500 years have been such clear cut moral crusades that they demanded universal participation? Should Switzerland churn its cuckoo clock profits into developing power projection capability?

In WWII, it should be noted that the Swiss had secret defense protocols with France against Germany, and some minor (mainly aerial) skirmishes were fought. Germany found out about these following the collapse of the allies in 1940. Switzerland was left in an unenviable position - having provided an aggressive neighbor with a legitimate cassus belli, completely surrounded by that country and its allies, and being somewhat less than an autarky economically. The only realistic cards the Swiss could play to were “it will be difficult to conquer us because of our terrain” card which had some slight effect and the “fuck with us and we’ll blow up the alpine tunnels” card which had significant effect on persuading the Germans to at least defer dealing with Switzerland. That parties in Switzerland dealt with the Axis was geographically speaking a foregone conclusion. (From everything I have read every European Neutral followed as pro-allied a position as they dared)

[APB]

There are two, really rather important details that the OP overlooks.

Firstly, the fact that the Swiss have been neutral for the past couple of centuries has not been something that the Swiss just decided unilaterally. Their neutrality was underwritten by international treatry, most importantly by the Congress of Vienna. In other words, other countries agreed that they could remain neutral. That makes a nonsense of argument that no one should help them because they have helped no one. To refuse help on those grounds would be blatant hypocrisy.

Secondly, there is now the inconvenient fact that Switzerland is a member of the UN, as indeed are all its neighbours (including Lichtenstein). It therefore has exactly the same rights to be protected against foreign invasion as any other UN member.

[Kozmik]

In addition, it was because of Swizerland’s neutrality that it was the ideal location for the Geneva Conventions. Geneva is also the seat of a dozen international organizations including the World Health Organization, and then there are the embassies.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@APB

There are two, really rather important details that the OP overlooks.

Firstly, the fact that the Swiss have been neutral for the past couple of centuries has not been something that the Swiss just decided unilaterally. Their neutrality was underwritten by international treatry, most importantly by the Congress of Vienna. In other words, other countries agreed that they could remain neutral. That makes a nonsense of argument that no one should help them because they have helped no one. To refuse help on those grounds would be blatant hypocrisy.

I wish to point out that blatant hypocracy is something most governments are very good at.

Secondly, there is now the inconvenient fact that Switzerland is a member of the UN, as indeed are all its neighbours (including Lichtenstein). It therefore has exactly the same rights to be protected against foreign invasion as any other UN member. .

And exactly the same rights to watch in outraged disbelief as various nations condemn anybody who offers assistance as “warmongers”, and mouths absurd justifications for any unwarrented act of aggression against Switzerland.

[Der_Trihs]

@Little Nemo

With moral issues like this, I always ask myself “what would Zapp Brannigan do?”

To elaborate on what Manda JO said, he’d send waves of his men at the enemy, hoping to run out their kill counters, ignoring Kip when he points out that humans don’t have kill counters.