# If Texas seceded, how far up shit creek would they be? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644 "2024-01-26T01:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/1 "2024-01-26T01:22:20Z")
Or they be just fine and/or dandy? I can imagine borders between Texas and other states closing, restricting interstate commerce, so I am wondering how self-sustaining they actually are, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/2 "2024-01-26T01:24:55Z")
Certainly would still have plenty of natural resources - access to the Gulf of Mexico, oil, lots of farmland, space for wind turbines, solar panels, etc. Rivers. Diverse population (although there might be flight of minorities elsewhere.) A climate for growing crops (although it may become too hot soon.) Already lots of built-in infrastructure, although we saw how badly that power grid can perform. Texas would be worse off than now, but still has plenty of stuff to keep it self-sufficient as an independent economy. Right now Texas’ GDP is $2.4 trillion, which would make it one of the largest economies in the world if it were an independent nation. Even if it shrank down to, say, $1.7 trillion as a consequence of the economic losses suffered by seceding, that would still put it ahead of Australia. And given that some of their neighboring states are politically conservative, such as Oklahoma, I think they could still get some good international-border commerce deals going with them, unless the U.S. federal government prohibited Oklahoma or other nearby red states from doing business on their own terms with Texas. We’d also see population shift; some right-wingers migrating to Texas while most left-wingers would move out. They’d have to start up their own football leagues, though, which would be true cause for grief. Longhorns, Aggies, Red Raiders, Bears, Mustangs in college…and a new NFL (TFL?) consisting of just the Cowboys, Texans, and some San Antonio team. That alone would be good enough reason not to secede. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/3 "2024-01-26T01:43:21Z")
Well, let’s see… [Texas is the proud home to 15 active duty military installations with an economic impact of over $100 billion.](https://gov.texas.gov/organization/military/installations) . So that’s out the window. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/4 "2024-01-26T02:06:31Z")
The oil industry is heavily subsidized. I had trouble getting Texas/oil only statistics, but the fossil fuel subsidies total around $20 Billion. So you know a hefty chunk of that is going to Texas. And then, at this point, very little of the oil they make money from is coming from their own soil. They would have a hard time maintaining control of all the drills outside their new sovereign borders. I wasn’t able to find any textile manufacturing (weaving) but they do have clothing manufacture. They have a lot of specialty firearm manufacturies, and a couple of larger facilities. They can produce at least [800,000 firearms per year.](https://247wallst.com/state/how-texas-ranks-in-gun-manufacturing/) But no missiles or advanced weapons. And no steel. They have deep sea ports, but they are easily controlled by the US fleet. [Food-wise they can grow all that they need.](https://gov.texas.gov/film/page/crop_information#:~:text=Texas%20leads%20all%20other%20states,sunflowers%20to%20sugarcane%20and%20more.) If they can get enough water. They are largely dependent upon groundwater, and flows from the upper 48. Their largest reservoir is the Toledo Bend on the Sabine River, which they share with Louisiana. That could get ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/5 "2024-01-26T02:30:15Z")
I was all set to jump in with the old trope “Texas gets way more money from the Federal government than they pay in taxes” but some googling suggests that this is not, in fact, true. The one article I read didn’t discuss whether that refers just to Federal handouts, e.g. highway money, housng funds, welfare, etc. - or whether it also includes things like the income of Federal employees living in Texas. In either case: Let’s say it happens. Suddenly, all the staff at those military bases aren’t getting paid any more. Their contribution to the local economy suddenly dries up. They either leave for another state, or they stay put and become a drain on the local services - which I suspect would have a very hard time absorbing the demand. What about the retirees on Social Security? Do they still get to collect? (I gather you can still collect SS if you live in another country, as long as you don’t renounce citizenship). At a minimum, there would be delays - and Medicare doesn’t cover much if any treatment outside the US. Banks would have problems. Would you leave your money in a bank that no longer had FDIC insurance? They’d also have their pool of potential borrowers shrink drastically. People who are living in low-income housing (e.g. Section 8 and the like) suddenly no longer have subsidies. I have limited faith in the Texas legislature’s willingness to make up the difference. All in all, I think it WOULD be a problem, and a BIG one. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/6 "2024-01-26T02:30:51Z")
I’ve lived here since 1962 but I would leave, not sure how much of a loss to Texas it would be. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/7 "2024-01-26T02:32:24Z")
If Texas was able to successfully secede from the United States, then I’m estimating that it would take five, maybe ten minutes before Mexican cartels were running their new territory. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/8 "2024-01-26T02:33:46Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > I’ve lived here since 1962 but I would leave, Trump might build a wall making that difficult. Bring a ladder. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/9 "2024-01-26T02:35:12Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > Texas is the proud home to 15 active duty military installations Well, yes. Am I missing something— why would the federal govt ever allow Texas to secede? You never, ever give up territory, even a barren rock, much less one full of useful military installations etc. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/10 "2024-01-26T02:37:42Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > You never, ever give up territory, even a barren rock, much less one full of useful military installations etc. Didn’t the US give up the Philippines? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/11 "2024-01-26T02:41:21Z")
Absolutely unequivocally never never ever, until you do it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/12 "2024-01-26T02:44:56Z")
It is a “what if” scenario, folks. For the purpose of this discussion just assume it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/13 "2024-01-26T02:51:13Z")
No diamond mine tho’. And my sister lives there. They’d have a serious problem with her if they run outta Pearl beer. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/14 "2024-01-26T02:55:58Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Well, yes. Am I missing something— why would the federal govt ever allow Texas to secede? You never, ever give up territory, even a barren rock, much less one full of useful military installations etc. You’re talking my language. I’d rather kick the rednecks completely off the North American continent before letting so much as a back alley leave the United States of America. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Didn’t the US give up the Philippines? Across a big-ass ocean. Yeah, I know Hawaii is, too, but the Pips were never admitted to the Union, ergo, no secession. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/15 "2024-01-26T03:00:08Z")
Pips? Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/16 "2024-01-26T03:01:29Z")
Admittedly, spur of the moment. But I didn’t feel like typing the whole thing out. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/17 "2024-01-26T03:15:23Z")
Would anyone remember The Alamo? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/18 "2024-01-26T03:16:26Z")
The car rental company? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/19 "2024-01-26T03:22:13Z")
Remember the Avis! Just doesn’t have quite the same resonance. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/20 "2024-01-26T03:33:55Z")
How much would that wall cost? Not just for Mexico, but for encircling the state. They’re scared of northerners raiding their football teams, indoctrinating school kids with liberal concepts, and non-whites hopped-up on reefer coming to steal their women - they’ll need a full-on wall around the state. That’ll keep them occupied while they go bankrupt financing it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644.md?page=2)