# If Texas seceded, how far up shit creek would they be? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644 "2024-01-26T01:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/82 "2024-01-28T00:53:31Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Wow. I have doctor’s in Texarkana, Ar and Texarkana, Tx. (I think it’s actually the same affiliation/system they work in) > Wonder how that will work over there? Even back when crossing the U.S./Canada border was a lot easier, cross-border health care was impractical. Since the main goal of Texan independence would be strengthened border controls, it would be even more impractical for you. Hope you are on the Texas side, because, looking at Google maps, that seems to be where the biggest general hospital is. The mental health hospital seems to be on the Arkansas side. Then there are issues when friends and family are in the other country. After 9/11, there were cases where you literally could no longer visit your next door Canadian/American neighbor without going through border control. And COVID made it impossible to see nearby family for months. People in border towns like yours would hate this, almost regardless of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/83 "2024-01-28T01:53:49Z")
Nope. Arkansas. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/84 "2024-01-28T02:49:49Z")
In all seriousness, the degree of shit-creekery depends on how well the split itself is handled and (ironically) how open the borders are. When countries / territories split, it is _not_ the case that all federal / national / multinational assets are handed over. Companies want to continue to make money, people want to continue doing their jobs and everyone wants to keep the lights on (ok, that’s another ironic one for Texas). Texas could remain at pretty much the same wealth level as it has today, after 5-10 years of transition pain. However, the conditions mentioned in my opening sentence are essentially impossible in the current context of MAGA and the _reason_ for wanting to secede. I would expect a split to be at best a economically-crippling shitshow and at worst actual war. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/85 "2024-01-28T14:27:56Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > > [@rsat3acr](#): > > > > > > I’ve lived here since 1962 but I would leave, > > > > Trump might build a wall making that difficult. Bring a ladder. > > Forget Trump, who will likely lose without Texas electoral votes. The Democrats — at least those in power — aren’t for open borders either. rsat3act could try for asylum, but most of those claims are denied. So it’s either stay in Texas, or go into the shadows to do a job Americans won’t do at a wage Americans wouldn’t ever accept. And 38 of the 40 EV Texas currently has will be redistributed among the remaining 49 states (two of them going away entirely). When would the redistribution occur (current law has it happening three years following a census)? And who gets them? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/86 "2024-01-28T15:55:17Z")
According to this site: > **[Which states rely the most on federal aid?](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-rely-the-most-on-federal-aid/)** > > A quarter of state and local government revenues come from federal funding. it’s the state that has received the third-most federal aid. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/87 "2024-01-28T16:27:13Z")
Along with military installations, how big is the NASA footprint in Texas? I would assume that would be withdrawn. Also, (may have been mentioed already) money for federally-funded highways ([Texas has by far the most](https://www.carparts.com/blog/states-with-the-most-interstate-highways-and-other-facts-about-interstates/)). ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/88 "2024-01-28T17:11:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And 38 of the 40 EV Texas currently has will be redistributed among the remaining 49 states Help me out here … “EV”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/89 "2024-01-28T17:12:36Z")
Electoral votes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/90 "2024-01-28T17:25:00Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As noted above, there are a lot of military bases in the state, and those aren’t counted in these money-in vs money-out comparisons. And those bases are basically funded by an indirect transfer via the US defense budget, with the nearby communities heavily dependent on them for revenue. > > San Antonio would basically be hollowed out if those bases shut down. I think it would be similar to when the CSA seceded. All your base are belong to us. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/91 "2024-01-28T17:37:35Z")
Why would the US military leave those bases? There’s plenty of precedent for US bases in foreign countries, even in countries that are enemies of us, like Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/92 "2024-01-28T18:04:18Z")
With the exception of Fort Cavazos, the forts would have to be supplied by air. Not like the Confederate Air Force is going to be much of a problem, but the logistics are still a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/93 "2024-01-28T18:40:28Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Even back when crossing the U.S./Canada border was a lot easier, cross-border health care was impractical. Curious, because [medical tourism](https://www.medicaltourism.com/destinations/mexico) in Mexico seems to be a matter of picking the best one. ---
**Author:** ![X.L.Lent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a5b964/32.png) [@X.L.Lent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X.L.Lent)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/94 "2024-01-28T19:50:59Z")
What would happen regarding transportation across the state? There are probably hundreds of millions of dollars of goods being transported to and from the southwest USA to the southeast USA by truck and rail. Would a toll be charged for crossing Texas? For rail transportation would the locomotives be removed from trains at the border and replaced by locomotives belonging to the new State ot Texas Railroad? What would happen if I take Amtrak’s Sunset Limited train from L.A. to New Orleans? Would I need a passport to cross Texas? I guess the above questions are a bit off topic. My guess is that secession would be major mess and would not only be bad for Texas but a for great part of the USA as well. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/95 "2024-01-28T20:02:34Z")
Ooh, tomorrow (got games to watch today) I’ll run that scenario through my Excel sheet. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/96 "2024-01-28T20:50:14Z")
> [@X.L.Lent](#): > > What would happen if I take Amtrak’s Sunset Limited train from > L.A. to New Orleans? Would I need a passport to cross Texas? Honestly, it would probably be better to just lay new railroad track to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/97 "2024-01-28T20:58:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think it would be similar to when the CSA seceded. > All your base are belong to us. If they can even manage it, how does that help anything? The bases are funded by the US government. They employ thousands of civilian staff and the military personnel (and their families) eat, shop, and spend in those communities in vast quantities, much of it subsidized to a greater or lesser (often greater) extent by the US government So, afterward, people are just going to take “TX dollars” or whatever and just be happy and go on the way their did before? Good luck with that. Didn’t exactly work for the Confederacy, either, which experienced runaway inflation And that was my point - the transfer of federal dollars is not just revenue vs direct outlays. Once you count all those other little things like spending on federal employees (predominantly the military) and various subsidies to companies, Texas relies heavily on money from the rest of the states ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/98 "2024-01-28T21:29:00Z")
Yeah. Not gonna happen in my life. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/99 "2024-01-28T23:14:10Z")
Actually, it should be fairly easy to route rail traffic _around_ Texas. It’s be done. Oklahoma City would see a boom in rail traffic and associated truck traffic. There would be a similar boom for Santa Fe, but they wouldn’t like it near as much. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/100 "2024-01-28T23:23:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why would the US military leave those bases? There’s plenty of precedent for US bases in foreign countries, even in countries that are enemies of us, like Cuba. Gitmo is a unique case. The lease that was signed at the end of the Spanish American War is unique. There is no end date and can only ended with consent of both sides. Cuba certainly isn’t consenting. Last time I checked the U.S. was still paying rent and Cuba was still not accepting. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644/101 "2024-01-28T23:58:08Z")
My scenario: Texas secedes, rapidly becomes an impoverished kleptocracy dependent on foreign oil sales, emigrants flood out, a few of the most deluded trickle in. Mexico moves its military into position, Texas, its defenses gutted, pleads with the US to come to its aid. It doesn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be/996644.md?page=6)